A Live CD or a VM - Which is more secure?

SaltandSauce

SaltandSauce

SaltandSauce

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Right, I've been digging deeper into security and I've got a question that I'm not entirely sure what the right answer is. I'm hoping someone here more knowledgeable than myself can help me out with this one. So here it is:

From a security/anonymity point of view, would it be more secure using an old laptop and booting directly from a Live CD, OR instead, running a Virtual Machine (VM) on my host OS? The VM could be deleted frequently after a clean slate has been saved, essentially wiping clean all use of the virtual OS each time it has been used.
 
Live CD running on a VM, behind a hardware firewall, locked in your bedroom, under your duvet, wearing only socks...

What does OP have to hide? ;)
 
Sin_Chase said:
What are you actually looking to achieve.

Security or Anonymity?
Click to expand...

In all honesty, I'd like the best of both worlds, or am I simply asking for too much? My only concern with a Live CD is that if I was ever required to save data it would not be an option.

d_brennen said:
What does OP have to hide? ;)
Click to expand...

Do you have blinds in your house? If so, what are you trying to hide? :p
 
It's a minefield, basically.

Local systems is one thing. What about your onward connectivity? What about DNS leaking information about your activity?

LOTS to consider, it's very very difficult to be absolutely anonymous to everyone/everything.
 
It certainly is SC but I'm thoroughly enjoying the challenge. As it stands, I'm currently hiding behind a VPN but even then it's not great considering I signed up using my own credit card. From what I've been reading, you should never trust a VPN provider that does not accept Bitcoins as a form of payment. And I must admit, the more the I think about it, the more the author of that statement has a point. I've yet to shopping around for a particular VPN provider that accepts Bitcoin but funnily enough, something tells me there won't be a great deal out there. Out of curiosity, have you got any that you know of?

With regards to an OS, I've been pointed in the direction of Tails which look really interesting considering it implements TOR among many other services. Through the use of TOR, the anonymity of any outbound traffic greatly improves.

My real issue is with my local machine and what my best options are. I'm still currently trying to weigh up the pros and cons of each of the two suggestions from my original post and take it from there. If anyone could shine some light on the whole situation, it would certainly be much appreciated.

I'm not trying to hide anything in particular. I'm just testing the waters to see how far I can go to protect/hide myself before my tin foil falls off. With so many things to consider, there really is a great deal to learn but it's all part of the fun! :D
 
Read up with regards to DNS leaking information.

While at most it will only show what domains you have been on.....it shows what domains you have been on :D

Any VPN provider you use should be tested against DNS leakage as well as the concerns you have raised regarding tracing account usage to persons via payment.

If you are not storing anything locally then your local concerns are diminished considerably. As mentioned prior, a VM will store locally and deleting it is simply not enough.
 
Thanks for the heads up. I'll have a read up on DNS leaking tomorrow and see what it throws up.

If I was to go down the Live CD route, would it be possible to save files onto an encrypted USB pen? I've yet to look into it completely but from what I hear, if I choose to go down the Linux route, TrueCrypt will no longer be of use.
 
Sin_Chase said:
As mentioned prior, a VM will store locally and deleting it is simply not enough.
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Oh, one more thing before I forget, what happens if I was running the VM from off an encrypted USB pen instead of the local hard drive? Do you know if that would make the slightest bit of difference?

Thanks for all the informative information so far mate, it's much appreciated!
 
Define security and anonymity.

I'm not being glib, but you need to think hard about what that means to you. It's all well and good having a laundry list of technical implementations but if your goals are fuzzy then that's exactly what it'll turn into; a check list you're just ticking through.
 
theheyes said:
Define security and anonymity.

I'm not being glib, but you need to think hard about what that means to you. It's all well and good having a laundry list of technical implementations but if your goals are fuzzy then that's exactly what it'll turn into; a check list you're just ticking through.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm looking for a secure system that I can surf the web anonymously without fear of leaving any data left behind on the machine itself. This obviously requires a multitude of steps that I'm currently trying to piece all together. Now I'm not too concerned with the steps taken to browse the web anonymously, I'm confident that I know what I'm doing here. What I'm not too sure about is my best solution to securing my physical system. I'm looking at the pros and cons of either option but can't seem to come up with a preferred method. Can you tell me which of the two options mentioned above that you would rather use from an security/privacy stand point?

I'm leaning towards a Live CD since no data is ever written to disk but if I ever require the need to save files, what do I do then?

KIA said:
VM & zero the free space after you're finished.
Click to expand...


KIA, do you mean zero the free space of the host machine after reverting back to the previous snap shot of the virtual machine? Is that correct? I guess this is certainly one way to do it but would be troublesome if I intended on using that machine more frequently.
 
When you start looking at storing on encrypted media you need to start looking at plausible deniabilty and combating things like hardware wear levelling techniques that can give the game away.

Really, the question is just how far are you going to take this?
 
VM, on an encrypted ext4 volume.

Encrypt the filesystem in the VM also.

7 pass zeroing on the host volume afterwards.

You monster.
 
Sin_Chase said:
When you start looking at storing on encrypted media you need to start looking at plausible deniabilty and combating things like hardware wear levelling techniques that can give the game away.

Really, the question is just how far are you going to take this?
Click to expand...

Once again, I've been keeping my eyes out on the following links:

http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=hidden-volume
http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=hidden-operating-system

Ideally, I'm looking to push this as far as I can go with it. You seem pretty clued up and I really appreciate the feedback. Do you fancy chatting via IM? It would certainly be appreciated and would no doubt speed up this whole process. If not, don't worry about it and I'll just keep refreshing this page in the hope that you'll respond! :D


randal24 said:
VM, on an encrypted ext4 volume.

Encrypt the filesystem in the VM also.

7 pass zeroing on the host volume afterwards.

You monster.
Click to expand...

I like the sound of this but having to zero the host volume afterwards seems like a real pain in the backside if I intend on using the virtual machine on a frequent basis. Not only that but without the luxury of a SSD, I can't imagine my hard drives will last too long if I'm having to overwrite free space with zeros each time their used.
 
Basically you are looking at running an encrypted partition within a partition which is accessible using the right password but an actual real partition is opened with other data with the 'wrong' password that appears to be the 'right' one...as it was accepted and data shown....and breathe!

You then need to use the 'right' wrong partition as much as the real hidden one to give weight to your plausible deniability.

Assuming you have a 50-50 split into 2 partitions, 1 hidden. If one showed wear levelling metrics far higher than the other then you are starting to erode the idea that there is nothing hidden. The question of "Why is this part of the media being used far more than the other yet seemingly there is no visible data there..."

I'm no expert, I have just done my research and played around in the past. Suffice to say the skill of some of the forensic experts out there is shocking, nevermind the stuff nobody ever hears about behind closed doors with regards to encryption etc.

You will spend god knows how long setting up THE ULTIMATE ANON MACHINE !!!!11oneoen(TM) then the thwarted by something probably really really stupid!

It's likely enough to use TruCrypt on USB media for small local file storage and shredding it after use.
 
Yeah, it certainly seems like a great deal of trouble to go through. Especially considering you need to use both partitions as much as one another for it look inconspicuous. I'm not sure if I'd be willing to go to those extremes!

The way things are going, I can see myself going down the following road. I'd appreciate if you could look over it and tell me what you think. Ok, so here goes nothing..

Using Windows 7 as my host machine, I'd create a Virtual Machine using Tails as my preferred OS from an .ISO image. This ISO image would be stored on an encrypted USB pen that would be used to build the VM each time it is ran. Rather than save a snap shot of the VM, I would delete the VM after each use instead. Each time I want to use the VM, I would just carry out the same procedure.

Do you have any concerns with my chosen method? I only have two issues that you might be able to help me out with. Firstly, would I still need to overwrite any free space after deleting the VM on the host machine? If so, I could see this being a serious pain in the backside if the frequency of use increases on that machine.

Secondly, if I want to store any data, what is the most secure and safest method using the setup? With me deleting the VM after each use, I would be unable to save any data, and as I’m sure you are already aware, the days of withholding your password on an encrypted drive here in the UK are long gone. So unless I want to go through the trouble of creating a hidden OS, I'm wondering what my options are.

Thanks again man, you’ve been great!
 
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