A paradox for game developers, miners/crypto and graphics cards

Bugbait · 8 Mar 2018 at 11:34

Been a while since I checked the charts but since I've started PC gaming (over 2 decades now) the vast majority of gamers do not use a flag ship graphics card or hardware. More of my PC gaming friends use older or lower to mid range graphics cards (GTX 960s, even 7970s) which they purchased second hand. Obviously they're not playing at maximum settings but it doesn't stop them from gaming or playing recent titles.

You don't need huge GPU power unless you're running games at 100Hz+ and/or 4K resolution.

Firestar_3x · 8 Mar 2018 at 12:22

Bugbait said:
You don't need huge GPU power unless you're running games at 100Hz+ and/or 4K resolution.

or VR.

Bugbait · 8 Mar 2018 at 12:24

Firestar_3x said:
or VR.

Yep, good call out, forgot about VR

.

Rezident · 8 Mar 2018 at 13:28

But you also get more for selling your second hand cards now that prices are high. I sold my "old, bottlenecked etc. etc." Fury pro for €335! and that was on top of the €49 I had to charge for registered shipping.

subbytna · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:00

andybird123 said:
PC world arent jacking up their prices, they just dont have any stock

You're not doing hypothetical very well.

You're not getting it...

Joe Bloggs who doesn't even know OCUK exists and is a low level tech head, sees PC world on the TV and goes there.

Nevermind, let me put it this way. Customer can't play new game X due to not meeting min specs, decides not to get the game as he can't afford min spec card. Developer loses a sale. This happens more and more due to GPU prices being high due to miners. What do gaming developers do?

Is that more understandable?

subbytna · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:02

Thekwango said:
he's doing hypothetical very well. you're either not understanding it or being intentionally obtuse

Thankyou squire.

subbytna · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:08

Pulseammo said:
Before starting out the developers will analyse what kind of GPUs are currently in people's systems in order to maximise potential sales. It's useless making a game if your metrics show that only 25% of the market can potentially buy your game in the first place (unless that percentage would generate suitable revenue for your needs, or you're Crytek and decide to make a game no one can run anyway only to later cry (pun intended) about poor sales down the line).

Since lots of games are cross platform I guess they'd factor in all console owners via an "equivalent PC gpu power" metric. Since console gaming seems to outstrip PC gaming I'd imagine that once the average GPU power in a PC falls too far below average console power developers will make a decision on whether they want to target the PC gaming part of the market.

Until consoles are vastly more powerful than the "average" gamer's GPU power I don't think this'll be a problem.

Good point. I hear you.

What about the fact a LOT of games these days can be fairly rubbish console ports and need the brute force power of a decent GPU to work it? Ok admittedly you'll still get some gaming from it but I've played loads of console ports where the game is a dog unless you brute force it with a high end GPU to get decent frame rates.

Again this was me just theorising about what could happen, albeit a miniscule chance, if miners keep gpu prices high. Will that scenario push us all into consoles?

edscdk · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:09

Bugbait said:
Been a while since I checked the charts but since I've started PC gaming (over 2 decades now) the vast majority of gamers do not use a flag ship graphics card or hardware. More of my PC gaming friends use older or lower to mid range graphics cards (GTX 960s, even 7970s) which they purchased second hand. Obviously they're not playing at maximum settings but it doesn't stop them from gaming or playing recent titles.

You don't need huge GPU power unless you're running games at 100Hz+ and/or 4K resolution.

my thoughts exactly so many people forget top end cards / systems are a minority of the marked not the norm

d_brennen · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:10

Games like Star Citizen (if it ever launches retail) in long development pipelines will have targeted the high end of their desired launch window (guestimation) so may be a Crysis style "will it run X" meme soon

x-st · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:14

Bugbait said:
You don't need huge GPU power unless you're running games at 100Hz+ and/or 4K resolution.

But would you be happy paying this gen's 1080 prices for a mid/low range next gen card? It remains to be seen how pricing will change from what we're accustomed to when new GPU's are launched.

PapaLazaru · 8 Mar 2018 at 16:26

andybird123 said:
970's are cheap and plentiful
So are 980ti's for that matter, so really the only people being affected by the current prices are people who will only buy new no matter what and feel they need 1080ti level performance

Pretty dim view in my opinion. The gaming masses will want to buy new. Most people want to buy new so they get a warranty or their parents will want to buy new for a warranty. The people on this forum are not the gaming masses, we are the true enthusiasts. And second hand prices are higher now than 2 years ago. In fact my 390 which I bought second hand for £130 two years ago would easily sell for the same now.

What I disagree with the OP a little in is the need for a high end card. Again, we on this forum.are a minority. Just look at the latest Steam hardware survey and look at the percentage of users with top end kit. It is minimal. The GTX1060 is the current top used card.

subbytna · 8 Mar 2018 at 17:47

PapaLazaru said:
What I disagree with the OP a little in is the need for a high end card. Again, we on this forum.are a minority. Just look at the latest Steam hardware survey and look at the percentage of users with top end kit. It is minimal. The GTX1060 is the current top used card.

True

andybird123 · 8 Mar 2018 at 18:12

subbytna said:
You're not getting it...

Joe Bloggs who doesn't even know OCUK exists and is a low level tech head, sees PC world on the TV and goes there.

Nevermind, let me put it this way. Customer can't play new game X due to not meeting min specs, decides not to get the game as he can't afford min spec card. Developer loses a sale. This happens more and more due to GPU prices being high due to miners. What do gaming developers do?

Is that more understandable?

PC world sell a tiny volume of GPU's, hence why they rarely have any stock and hence why their prices are not jacked up like OCUK's
PC worlds prices aren't £1k for a 1080ti, so "people see PC world's prices" doesn't belong in this hypothetical

Thekwango · 8 Mar 2018 at 19:53

andybird123 said:
PC world sell a tiny volume of GPU's, hence why they rarely have any stock and hence why their prices are not jacked up like OCUK's
PC worlds prices aren't £1k for a 1080ti, so "people see PC world's prices" doesn't belong in this hypothetical

Oh my.

Edit: decided not to bother explaining hypothetical as I'm convinced now you're being intentionally obtuse.

andybird123 · 8 Mar 2018 at 20:56

Thekwango said:
Oh my.

Edit: decided not to bother explaining hypothetical as I'm convinced now you're being intentionally obtuse.

The hypothetical bit is that people are not buying a game because a hypothetical game requires a higher end GPU, not that PC world are charging £1k for GPU's. The opening post didnt even mention PC world.

Even if they hypothetically were charging £1k for a 1080ti, in this hypothetical world, people have gained enough knowledge to feel comfortable opening their PC case to upgrade their GPU, but not heard of this thing called "the internet" that has a thing called "google" where you can search for prices of things and instead they only go to a physical shop that doesnt have any stock of GPU's anyway. Yeah right.

Thekwango · 8 Mar 2018 at 21:08

andybird123 said:
The hypothetical bit is that people are not buying a game because a hypothetical game requires a higher end GPU, not that PC world are charging £1k for GPU's. The opening post didnt even mention PC world.

Oh double my.

Psycho Sonny · 9 Mar 2018 at 14:36

subbytna said:
You're not getting it...

Joe Bloggs who doesn't even know OCUK exists and is a low level tech head, sees PC world on the TV and goes there.

Nevermind, let me put it this way. Customer can't play new game X due to not meeting min specs, decides not to get the game as he can't afford min spec card. Developer loses a sale. This happens more and more due to GPU prices being high due to miners. What do gaming developers do?

Is that more understandable?

they make the game on console - simples

mrbazmondo · 9 Mar 2018 at 16:41

We'll probably end up with more indy games and less blockbuster ones on PC.

D1craig · 9 Mar 2018 at 18:12

no. the devs will make the games more expensive and say stuff to make it sell. just like GPUs now a days before the crypto thing...

C-Roy · 10 Mar 2018 at 07:21

Rroff said:
I suspect in that scenario they just wouldn't make games for the PC which is a shame because it started to see a decent resurgence and people were just starting to migrate from consoles to PC gaming as well but I suspect prices of late will stall that.

Yep. When it starts effecting future pic releases that'll another kick in the xxxx.