A Scania HGV "review" - 10 years after the last one!

[Scania]

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...barbara-hilary-56k-no.17871464/#post-11612236

Some of the old timers may remember this thread, posted back in 2008 after I'd got a then new R Series Scania HGV, whilst I'm sure its pretty much common knowledge for those not in the know I'm a professional HGV driver - have been for way longer than I care to remember - hence the username Scania, my preferred "Horse" to ride around in.....

Anyway, fast forward 10 years from the last review, today I got my grubby mitts on a new generation (as there known) Scania R series and wow! what an improvement over the old model...







Unfortunately unavoidably dirty due to the time of year, its a Scania R450 44t artic, registered in September and already with nearly 18k miles under its wheels, a huge improvement on the older model in every respect bar imo styling - the old model looks much better from the outside I feel but thats pretty much the only part where the old model is better I feel.

For comparison, taken at the OC/UK meet earlier in the year..


Inside is where it shines over the older model, let me take you around...


Lots of red lighting which you'll see later, a particularly nice touch being the illuminated door, handy when open in a layby on the A1....

Youll see beneath the seat a hand held control for the air suspension, and if you look closely to the rear you see lumbar adjustment for your lower and middle back (air bags in the seat) and two stage seat heating (stage II should be called arse fryer its that hot!)

Once in your sat in an extremely comfy seat...

Multi function steering wheel controls for the infotainment system, cruise control, phone and truck setup...


Looking to the left you have two of three USB inputs (for media playing, phone charging etc) company fitted phone (which suits fine, my own phone is paired to the trucks system which is independent) lighting, heating and suspension controls along with differential locks, aircon and the infotainment system...


For purposes of the built in SAT-NAV you tell it the trucks dimensions and weight...

And it will route you accordingly taking into account the weight, length and (most importantly) height of the rig, I've tried to catch it out and its not let me (yet!)...


I don't particularly like the map layout (no matter if its set to 2D or 3D) I fine NavMii on my iPhone far superior to be honest, but NavMii does not allow for the trucks size so I can forgive it that one!!
It'll tell you who your listening to if your unsure!


Range to empty of fuel and Ad-Blu (fuel additive) tanks...

Three different modes of operation, ECO where it changes gear early and will coast over the brow of hills to save fuel, Standard (where it won't) and Power mode where it will always drop a cog on hills and give you the full beans which to be honest is practically redundant, you can happily run in ECO mode @44t (maximum weight) and the truck does not struggle at all.


Controls for the lights (automatic if preferred) are on the drivers door along with electric adjustment for all mirrors & electric windows, they all fall to hand beautifully, the ergonomics in this machine are quite something...


Dashboard "Night mode" button - turns off everything bar the speedometer - very effective along with lane departure and collision warning buttons, hill start assist (never use it) and the trucks limited speed (as required to be displayed by law)


Sensors for the collision warning system (which will apply the brakes - violently - if you choose to ignore it!) rain sensor and obligatory dash cam.


Dashboard air suspension controls with memory presets for certain configurations.


Back at the yard, it got a wash...

Much better!


@Gibbo - cleaned the wheels but, alas, no tyre shine.


Air lines and catwalk where you go to couple the combination up...


And in case you were in any doubt as to who built it...






How it looks in the dark!


Technical plate showing its legal and design capacities - I'm somewhat horrified that such a Swedish beauty was built in - FRANCE!!!!

So there you have it, a 2018 Scania.

I can't put into words how much of a leap forward it is from its predecessor, which was a fine truck itself, the steering is quite literally lighter than it is in my e38 BMW, the road holding and handling (Yes, handling ability in a 44t truck) is unbeleivable, the refinement is remarkable.

Trucking is becoming far too refined, a kid could drive this thing (these days, there practically allowed to!) , the traction, stability, road holding and pulling power is superb and no matter what I'm yet to do worse than 10 MPG (which given my car averages 18 says something!)

What a truck.

Any questions, be my guest.

 

[Scania]

How does the cab perform on a race-track? Does the GPS turn off the speed limiter?

BTW if memory serves, I got into trouble here for saying that a Skoda Kodiaq needed more than one USB port, so stand by!

You don't have to live in a Kodiaq wheras a truck is often the drivers home, those USB's come in handy, especially the one by the bunk....

 

[Scania]

Interesting stuff.
I’ve never driven anything bigger than a 7.5t back in 1990.

What sort of gearbox/clutch arrangement does it have?
What’s the bunk like?
Any facilties for making Tea?

Fully automatic (albeit automated manual if you see what I mean)

The bunk is very comfortable.

I have a 24v kettle

iGoat is my iPhone

 

[Scania]

Good fun to see something v.different - cool to see even if I know nothing about trucks.

What's your view on V8 vs il6 versions? Tbh I had no idea of engine configurations - how many gears has it got? What's the driven axles? Tell us more! Also engine bay shots required

This one is an i6, the V8’s are better suited to pulling lots of weight (but of course more expensive) although interestingly Volvo’s top power truck is an i6 @750bhp whereas Scania’s 16litre V8 is 730bhp, both have near identical torque output but - having driven both - the V8 seems to pull better from low revs which seems a trait of most Scania’s I’ve driven.

I’d prefer a V8 but for regular U.K. distribution work they aren’t needed.
You see plenty of R730’s pulling standard trailers running @44t which is ludicrous given they were designed for abnormal loads and things like Australian 120+ ton road trains!

It’s driven by the rear axle although the truck can be specified with middle or double drive if required by an operator (again, abnormal heavy loads)

14 forward gears, two ultra low “crawler” gears and 12 normal use and two reverse gears, a low and high range, you can change gear whilst reversing also.

This is the engine, photo taken from the web.

 

[Scania]

But what about the important numbers, 0-60, 1/4 mile time, number of torques etc

0-60 is a bit difficult with a 90Km/h speed limiter alas

1/4mile can be the stopping distance at full weight in the wet which is something to consider before cutting in front of a truck!! (not saying you do btw)

Torques, this has 2350Nm.

 

[Scania]

I really like that you take your trucks to OCuk meets xD Gibbo with his little Jag then you just rock up parking next to it in a truck haha.

Ha!

I stuck it next to the Range Rover which iirc was packing more power than the truck!
All part of the fun, my boss was cool with the idea so I brought it along, seem to remember @Gibbo enjoying the way the cab rocks when you rev the engine.

I’ll see if I can bring this to the next one.

 

[Scania]

So, is it yours or the companies? I worked as a second man for someone who contracted for Silent Night many years ago and the he owned his own tractor unit which I thought was unusual.

P.S. how many prostitutes have your murdered vs those you just pay?

When I worked at Stobart a lot of the trucks were owner drivers, you spot them by the three instead of four figure fleet number on the cab doors.

It’s the companies vehicle, the margins are so tight in transport I’d not want to take the risk, for example, a blowout and the subsequent call out, replacement tyre and often repair of damage caused by the exploding tyre casing can easily wipe out a trucks earnings for a week never mind its profit.

As for the ladies of the night, I’ve met a few over the years (not in THAT sense!) and most are either addicts or being pimped - usually both - or just desperate for money to support their kid(s), very sad when you see it how it actually is rather than portrayed in the media believe me.

Rather enjoyable read that. Always spot idiots carving trucks up, so that potential stopping distance is rather scary.

Thanks.

The thing with most trucks is you can’t often tell if it’s loaded or empty, if an axle is raised on the tractor unit then chances are it’s either empty or part loaded, empty you can out break a van easily (as a few have discovered in my past) when loaded it’s not just a matter of stopping the rig but you have to allow for the load itself, steel beams being amongst the worst, in a full emergency brake situation the truck will stop but such a load won’t.

It does look pretty cool....only one question...where are the surround view cameras? I see them on all sorts of HGVs on the motorways these days...surely they are a must!

We had a trial of them at a former employers , they are actually quite ineffective especially at this time of year - they get dirty so your left with a screen view that shows little - and drivers actually relied on the camera more than the mirrors , accidents and incidents with camera fitted trucks actually increased!

All of the mirrors on this are electrically adjustable so you can move them to help check blind spots and a godsend compared to fixed ones.

The trick I find is to pay as much attention to the mirrors as you can but above all be aware of what’s around you before it gets to your blind spot and always assume something is already in said blind spot prior to manoeuvres.

 

[Scania]

seemingly for many drivers they have no idea whats going on around them and are "surprised" when they find something there.

So true, I’ve had a few incidents over the years where I’ve literally watched a car along side my trailer start to indicate, move over and then turn their head in surprise as they hear the bang of them driving into the side of the trailer! Unbelievable but it happens , I’d say at least once a day I’ll blast my horn to warn the guy who’s in my mirror view i.e. the majority of my rig is ahead of him and you’d think clearly visible yet the indicator comes on as they start moving into my lane.

Blinkered driver syndrome!

You said that the lorry is much better than it used to be... Do the trailers "get better" or develop over the years or are they pretty 'dumb' and just a long lump of metal with some wheels at the end? Like you say the handling is much improved etc do trailers get better?

Also how is it / lorries in general in the snow? I would have thought not great as so much tyre is in contact with the ground it would snow-plane?

The trailers have improved massively too over the years, I notice the difference because we’ve got a few old ones, circa 2003 so not ancient but old enough and a few 2018 built ones, the difference is striking.

Older ones tend to have early incarnations of ABS which won’t “talk” to the ABS computer in the tractor properly, the ABS still works but the brakes tend to snatch - especially when lightly loaded or empty - which gets tiresome, you can certainly feel a heavily loaded older trailer starting to get brake fade (many have drum brakes) on a hilly route.

The newer ones have ESP (Electronic stability), ABS, adjustable air suspension, disc brakes and are generally lighter in unladen weight, the electronics talk properly to the tractor and the whole combination is very much more stable, especially on bends.

As for snow, touch wood, I’m yet to get stuck out on the road, I remember one year waking up and being unable to get out of a lay-by near Inverness because a snow plough had been past during the night and blocked the exit with heaps of snow and in addition my trailer had become a large snow drift, went back to bed, the snowplough crew came back after rush hour and got me and the other trucks out by clearing the lay-by.

In terms of driving in snow, we just crack on, you still get your deliveries!

You just have to be extremely careful of jack-knifing especially on bends and under braking and the golden rule is don’t stop unless you have to, more often than not it’s car drivers blocking the road that hold you up rather than the truck itself, you can transfer more weight onto the drive axle to help with traction, we’ve got diff locks and a lot of gears to choose from which helps greatly.

My dad was a trucker and driver of ridiculously big plant, so ever since seeing his work vehicles I've always loved HGV cabins. Loads of buttons and things, like a spaceship!

Questions:
- Where's the CB radio and what's your handle? Having a truck without one just doesn't seem right!
- What extras do you have in the bunk? Do you still get a TV?
- Can I have a go in it?


Many larger ships have emergency stopping distances of 2-3 miles, and the really big VLCCs require 5 days notice in writing!!

No CB these days alas, tbh, the last time I used a CB in a truck I found myself talking to I presume some saddo sat in his underpants in a bedroom somewhere! nothing truck related, no "Breaker 1-9" quite a dissapointment, I turned the thing off for the rest of my shift.

No T.V. but I carry a laptop (sourced , of course, from the MM here) which is full of films.

I'd love to let you have a try, you'd be surprised how easy to drive they are going forward, reversing - even after 14 years on Class 1 artics - still catches me out occasionally

The stopping distance depends a lot on what your carrying, if its something big and heavy, it can - in certain situations - be better to hit something rather than pull a full on stop and let said item come through the trailers bulkhead and crush you!

Lovely piece of kit.

My dad was a driver for many years and used to take me along whenever he could. Eventually he got his international CPC and turned to transport management. He ran a modest fleet of around 50 units and 150 trailers, but only Scania really got his juices flowing.

I remember him saying once "there's no such thing as a hill when you're driving a Scania".

Scania's have always "floated my boat" as it were, they just seem imo to have most things right, a Volvo FH has a better cab for space along with a DAF XF but from a driving perspective they imo have it nailed, they stop better, handle better and pull better but, along with Volvo, have reliability absolutely on the money, its ironic,German trucks just don't cut the mustard (wheras their cars are viewed as premium) - MAN (who like Scania are VW owned) trucks start to fall apart after a few hundred K, Mercedes do the same (albeit from new! ) the sweeds , Volvo & Scania don't yet you don't find a Volvo car viewed as "premium" and SAAB (once owners of Scania) are now defunct....

Hills are always good, I know I can usually pass another truck once we hit a bank as he'll slow but I won't - and thats with a 6 pot engine - as for the bigger engines they produce, theres a tagline "Your never late in a V8"

With no trailer weight and just the truck itself, what's performance like?

More than enough to beat Mr chav lad in his Corsa off the lights and upto the point where the limiter kicks in, the look of puzzlement never ceases to amuse.

Trailers do get better. The walls of our European Krone ones are made of some groovy honeycomb translucent polymer and our Cartwright ones are streamlined for fuel saving.

Indeed they do.

 

[Scania]

Thanks that's interesting stuff!

When you don't have a trailer can you change up three gears at a time?

Cheers

When empty / solo (as in no trailer) it’ll start off in 3rd and usually jump two gears between changes.

I’ve tried it I’m manual mode and it’ll happily pull away from standstill in 5th on its own,the R450 is built to pull 50+ tons so dragging ~ 8 tons off the line really poses no problems to it!

Lovely!

I work on DAFs on a daily basis, mostly rigid LF45s but do quite a few CF85s too. This seems like a massive step up from those.

It’s a whole different world, more gears, more gizmos, more (much) more power and torque, they are remarkable things, but, at a price and it’s considerable, ballpark £90k to buy one outright iirc.

 

[Scania]

One thing I've always wondered with trucks automatic braking systems, can it tell the trailer is loaded with 44 tons of steel and not slam the brakes on in an emergency?

The trailer has a load sensor which regulates air pressure to the brakes so when it’s empty it applies far less brake pressure than when it’s loaded.
The tractor (well, some) have on board weight sensors so it knows as well how much weight it’s pulling and regulated the brake pressure accordingly.

Basically the truck knows if it’s loaded or not but not what type of load, that’s down to the driver.

Scania Interiors are they all developed in house or taken from other marques? GM etc?

In house so far as I’m aware.

Is that Browns between Longport and Tunstall? I cycled past there along the canal earlier today. Nice cab, love the interior lighting. Gotta say, trucks have come a long way since my Uncle was driving his Foden and then Volvo back in the day.

Yes, at Ravensdale next to Johnson Tiles.

Looks very smart, although it doesn't look like it has xenons fitted? My father in-laws is a semi retired driver (retired this year) and hehes quite chilled out with his driving, I think he finds it quite therapeutic. I've always wondered why 24c rather than 12 though, is it just to reduce current/cable size?

Not Xeon lights as far as I can tell although they are very good regardless.

24V is to provide the current requirements of the truck, for example if you park in a lay-by that’s not got a kerb separating it from the road your supposed to leave your side lights on after dusk even if your parking up for the night - I’ve had a ticket in the past for not doing so - so it needs enough power to run the lights all night then turn over and start a 13.6litre engine!

You also have to run auxiliary equipment off the batteries like tail lifts etc, it all takes a lot of power.

Scania have come a long way even in the past 4-5 years. Long gone are the days when everyone hated them for their scary brakes.

Genuinely surprised to read that, I’ve always found the brakes to be excellent (the first Scania I drove was a 1991 example)
If anything they’ve previously had a lot of criticism for poor seats which was warranted imo although the seats in this are excellent with great adjustment and lumbar support so they’ve sorted that at long last.

I’d love to have a go in something like this! Wonder if anyone does a ‘track day’ for trucks?!
Must admit I like this new generation of Scania but always loved the Volvo FH.
Mentioning the V8s, there is a truck by where I work that has been ‘tuned’ as the V8s seem to be.
Guess it has the equivalent of a sports exhaust and sounds pretty nice.
Can’t remember what company it is that runs it but they are a blue livery with matching trailers.
Think they also have a bonneted Scania as well.

It’s probably had a remap along with an aftermarket exhaust system which ups the volume and makes the V8 especially sound epic...
Like this by any chance?

The pull away sound @1:05 I never tire of!

[expected to see some top gear steppenwolf on the playlist ? ... daren't reload previous page again system might die,
also I did n't spot a dash-cam - maybe there was a tyre iron though ]

Look smart - yes ...

Is the emergency braking up there with Volvo ? this impressive utube still sticks in my mind Volvo truck emergency braking system - How it Works but maybe that had little load

How many miles do you get from tyres on a driven axle ? are you changing once a month.

It’s got a dash cam (on the first page which is a wall of pictures I grant you)
The emergency braking is as good as Volvo’s, yes, but you have to remember it’s great on a test track with a bolted down test weight, very different with a conventional load that would move under such harsh braking, I had the system activated by a van cutting me up when at Stobarts, it braked violently and did stop me but the 26pallets of soft drinks on the trailer ended up being shot forward, the front four pallets were effectively crushed by the rest of the load behind them, damaged the trailer bulkhead too!
It’s a fantastic system though but not infallible!

As for tyre life, dependent on type of use, you can realistically expect 40-50k miles from drive axle tyres, longer for trailer tyres depending on how many times the trailer is “spun around” in a 180 degree turn with weight on which ruins the tyres as you can imagine!

Once the tyre is at the legal limit most are “regroovable” meaning a tyre fitter will cut new tread patterns into the tyre and its reused - but never on a steering axle - which increases the life further.

Have Scania finally gotten rid of the Dipstick ?

It looks like they've also (finally) installed a digital speedo although it looks a bit tiny !

Our Fleet Manager might make his mind up sooner or later. We were a mix of Renault & Scanias but changed to all Merc. Now they are talking about going all Scania.

As long as they're clean and got a good sound system I don't care what Marque they are although it has to be said that the old Renault Premiums were an awesome worktool. ALL our drivers want those back again !

Yes, the dipstick is no more (although a few still to be found in the drivers seat )
When I first got it, I was doing my daily checks and was somewhat puzzled that I couldn’t find it, you’ve got to delve into the on board computer for a start up checklist now to determine the level.

The digital Speedo is there but you can turn it off if required.

This has got the premium entertainment setup which is a cost option but persuade your guy to work them into the deal, well worth it, the sound quality is fantastic - won’t go quite as loud as I’d like but hey ho.
Think you’ll like them, imo there a lot better than current Mercs, don’t know about the current Renaults but do have fond memories of the old Premium, takes me back!

 

[Scania]

What's the 0-56 time do you reckon?

No idea tbh, low teens maybe? perhaps a little more.

The trouble is without a trailer on the back it’ll lose grip and the TC kicks in not to mention getting a quick off the line start would mean pulling away in a higher gear than it would want to which is really not good for the clutch.

Usually you get it rolling then hoof it at say 5-10mph if you see what I mean, trying to hard launch ~8 tons off the line from a standing start is a sure fire way of snapping a half shaft, destroying the clutch / gearbox or all three.

 

[Scania]

That looks really impressive! Do you drive just within the UK? How many miles would the Scania be good for, and when would it be chopped in?

10mpg sounds very good for a vehicle of that size and weight.

I just drive within the U.K.

Depending on use, at least a million KM, I know of an ex Stobart Scania that I see traveling around to this day that’s nearing 3million! and I know of an ex Stobart Volvo that’s done a lot more than that.


Browns keep them 3years (on lease) then they go back, the 15plates that we recently changed were all around 400k km when they went back, they were then sold as approved used through the Scania dealer network.

We have some MAN trucks which are 2010/2011 reg - and owned outright rather than leased- and at the end of their life which is anywhere between 1-1.5m Km they simply get scrapped because they are effectively worthless!

I know some of the more well regarded hgv brands like Scania, Volvo and to a degree Mercedes (but their reputation these days is nothing compared to that of old) are exported to Africa where they have all of the emission control systems removed (!) and they then carry on working out there.

You have to remember though unlike cars which tend to be serviced annually at best if at all, an hgv goes for mandatory inspections and servicing and if something needs doing it’s done or the truck is illegal!
Inspection intervals vary between every 4 to 13 weeks depending on what type of work the vehicle does, a lightly loaded truck will require every 13 weeks, one that does constant heavy work will vary between 4-8weeks depending on miles covered and anything over 12 years old has 6 weekly inspections regardless of its work.
A similar regime is in place for servicing.
And everything has to be documented and records kept for years and rightly so, a poorly maintained vehicle is dangerous especially a heavy one!

As for fuel, they are remarkably efficient - relatively very much more so than most cars when you consider the size, weight, engine size and relative lack of aerodynamics.

An average car these days will achieve say 45mpg and weigh 1.5ton and be nice and aerodynamic, a 44ton full size artic weighs 29times that, usually is at least 13ft high, and has the aerodynamic properties of a small building yet can average say 8-9mpg constantly running at that weight, around towns it’s lower on motorways and A-roads higher, still, it puts cars to shame imo.

Running lightly loaded (say a trailer full of packaging material like Jiffy bags and bubble wrap) you can get upto 15mpg with a steady right foot!

 

[Scania]

Fuel pumps etc require metric to be entered but we set the mpg to imperial because we understand it better !

Pretty much this.

Tachographs are in KM by default and as such all related paperwork is in KM too, so we record everything in KM but the Mk1 human brain (in the U.K. at least) understands miles better.

 

[Scania]

European regulations mandate this?

Think this is the reason but to be fair tachographs have shown KM since their introduction decades back, where the stipulation for KM comes from I couldn’t say tbh.

 

[Scania]

I had a choice wagon t'other night.

13 plate (440) Scania.. I didn't know we even had any left that old !



Oh.. Latest Stobart Calendar is out !!

580k Miles, pretty much average for such an age, we’re it a car of any vintage it would be remarkable - the difference between mandatory servicing and repair as opposed to when the owner chooses or can afford to do it!

As for the calendar, touché!

 

[Scania]

trucks always well looked after and clean

Not quite all of them.....

 

[Scania]

Maybe not then! Haha

Just witnessed another one pull in today

Going by your location, and trying to think of regular drops we go to, your not at Taylormade Timber are you?

 

[Scania]

Bingo

Have you been?

A fair few times, a regular “back load” for us.

Small world eh?