About to give up on AM4 mATX... any news?

eddiew

eddiew

eddiew

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I've been struggling with a bad choice of motherboard for nearly a year. It's mATX and I like the format, but this particular model is just terrible on multiple levels and it needs to go.

After researching it, all B350 mATX boards are a weak around the VRM section (4+2 best case, 3+2 worst, terrible heatsinks), to the point where I have no confidence that they'll handle a Ryzen 3700X next year. I see 75-80 degrees on the VRMs while Handbraking with just a 6-core :(

There are literally zero X470 mATX options available and no signs of ever getting one, and looking at the previews of B450 from Computex, they look suspiciously similar to their B350 comrades.

As it stands, I'm about to throw in the towel and get a CH7H and forget plans for a smaller case.

Does anyone perchance have any news that might pour some rain onto the mATX desert? Are there any manufacturers who've actually taken power delivery seriously? Or is it all a scummy plot to make people buy a new board with each CPU because oh, your "compatible" AM4 from last year can't deliver the wattage the new chips need?
 
@eddiew

there are quite a few cases that are ATX but have the overal size size as 80% of mATX cases. Jonsbo UMX4 , top to bottom airflow with PSU located top right blowing air out the top or Raijinteks Thetis which is prob the smallest ATX case you can get, aluminium and glass .

also VRMs are designed to handle 105c of heat - most of them anyways- just track down the IR PDF and will state operating temp guidelines from manufactures.

do see what you mean though by VRM count on B450 boards being greater. Aorus Pro (3) is 10+1 hybrid set up .

beef up in X470/B450 is a reflection of whats happening with Thread Ripper 2. Aorus x399 and Zenith 8 true phase boards struggled with the core hence why MSI and Gigabyte shown off 18+ phase count monsters. Zen2 chip could offer a lot more cores or faster speeds. Its still a grey area for board partners . Cant stress the situation of how bad the engineering samples of first Zen chips were and why lack of boards or design were in them- really performed badly- though i suspect those details will never be released
 
orbitalwalsh said:
there are quite a few cases that are ATX but have the overal size size as 80% of mATX cases. Jonsbo UMX4 , top to bottom airflow with PSU located top right blowing air out the top or Raijinteks Thetis which is prob the smallest ATX case you can get, aluminium and glass .

also VRMs are designed to handle 105c of heat - most of them anyways- just track down the IR PDF and will state operating temp guidelines from manufactures.
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I like that Jonsbo actually... remarkably elegant for full ATX, and I'm inclined to use smaller GPUs by nature.

Appreciate that my current boards VRMs are not too hot - but this is only with a 6-core. I've no confidence in it for a 12 core Ryzen 3000 at all :( (Also it has many other downsides that make me want to swap.)

Full ATX B450 is starting to look better I agree, but the mATX photos I've seen so far look hauntingly similar to the B350s, which are at best 4+2.

pandem0nium said:
Gigabyte do a couple of X370 mATX boards.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7x2tes/new_gigabyte_am4_300series_mainboards_x370_matx/
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I'm aware of these, but the single m.2 slot is disappointing, and it's stuffed behind the GPU heatsink as on my current board - where it reaches up to 68 degrees while gaming with "just" a 1060. That's only 2 degrees below it's throttle point, and it's hardly active! Awful, awful layout :(
 
It may be worth looking at a mini-itx x370 maybe x470, If they do one as I've not looked. Unless you need the extra slots?
I never could work out why they could do decent mini-itx and not m-atx.
 
eddiew said:
I like that Jonsbo actually... remarkably elegant for full ATX, and I'm inclined to use smaller GPUs by nature.

Appreciate that my current boards VRMs are not too hot - but this is only with a 6-core. I've no confidence in it for a 12 core Ryzen 3000 at all :( (Also it has many other downsides that make me want to swap.)

Full ATX B450 is starting to look better I agree, but the mATX photos I've seen so far look hauntingly similar to the B350s, which are at best 4+2.



I'm aware of these, but the single m.2 slot is disappointing, and it's stuffed behind the GPU heatsink as on my current board - where it reaches up to 68 degrees while gaming with "just" a 1060. That's only 2 degrees below it's throttle point, and it's hardly active! Awful, awful layout :(
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yep, the UMX5 looks aweful though!

3Pv33Yk.jpg

try not to look at the Phase count to much but more of the IR component number no. used. take ASUS Hero and Aorus 7 X470 both have 10+2 phase set up compare to ASRock 14+2 i think . Hero and 7 use the latest IR component which is better in all around design to the older model the Taichi uses- so they just use more . Taichi and 7 both use the same IR controller but Hero differs so interesting mix .

worth waiting to see the breakdowns when they release- though im sure most of the matx are from MSI ...
 
eddiew said:
I'm aware of these, but the single m.2 slot is disappointing, and it's stuffed behind the GPU heatsink as on my current board - where it reaches up to 68 degrees while gaming with "just" a 1060. That's only 2 degrees below it's throttle point, and it's hardly active! Awful, awful layout :(
Click to expand...

One M.2 slot is pretty standard. You have to use an adapter in the x4 slots on most of the boards.

Yeah, would be better to either have a heatsink shield on the board or better placed out of the way.

The strix 470i is going to be a good fit if you don't need the extra slots.
 
los said:
try not to look at the Phase count to much but more of the IR component number no. used. take ASUS Hero and Aorus 7 X470 both have 10+2 phase set up compare to ASRock 14+2 i think . Hero and 7 use the latest IR component which is better in all around design to the older model the Taichi uses- so they just use more . Taichi and 7 both use the same IR controller but Hero differs so interesting mix .

worth waiting to see the breakdowns when they release- though im sure most of the matx are from MSI ...
Click to expand...

It's true, we do get things like 60 amp mosfets on a premium board vs 40 on a budget, but there's not a lot of breakdowns around and it's hard to see whether anyone's upping their components. You'd think it'd be part of the marketing spiel if they'd actually made any changes...

Also MSI seem to think that a slab of black plastic is a good heatsink surface. Style over substance every time. And I don't even like the style :(


pandem0nium said:
One M.2 slot is pretty standard. You have to use an adapter in the x4 slots on most of the boards.

Yeah, would be better to either have a heatsink shield on the board or better placed out of the way.

The strix 470i is going to be a good fit if you don't need the extra slots.
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Thing is the Strix ITX has two m.2 slots and that mATX Threadripper board has three, so there really is no excuse from a physical standpoint. Far as I can see, no manufacturer is interested in doing an actual premium mATX AM4 board, they all see it as the budget Cheapy McCheapface option.
 
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los said:
It may be worth looking at a mini-itx x370 maybe x470, If they do one as I've not looked. Unless you need the extra slots?
I never could work out why they could do decent mini-itx and not m-atx.
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I have been debating this, tbh... I have 2x16gb and I'm beginning to suspect it will be enough until DDR5 makes it irrelevant, and my soundcard is wasted on the cheap 2.0 speakers I've moved to since my 5.1s broke - and I don't really mind the difference.

The Strix X470-i looks good on paper, but I don't quite trust them to have used high quality VRMs. It could turn out to be yet another midrange 4+2 that's going to have heat issues with a top-tier CPU with an all-core OC. Need to see a proper breakdown before I'd go for it.

I suspect manufacturer's see mATX as the middle child - people who want a tiny system go ITX, people who want power go ATX. The fact that actually, most users could be completely served by a well-made mATX seems to pass them by. Stick the VRM section from a CH7H onto an mATX board and it will service gamers and professionals very well. Many people can find use for 4 dimms, but nobody needs those extra slots unless they're into mining, and that should be the fringe case, not the mainstream :/ </rant>
 
I agree with the need for well built mATX boards. On the intel side as well, there's no more maximus gene (or impact) boards.

Multi GPU is no longer a good idea so a lot of space is wasted with ATX.
 
pandem0nium said:
Multi GPU is no longer a good idea so a lot of space is wasted with ATX.
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That is exactly my thinking. The only people who need/want dual GPUs are miners and people gaming on multiple screens, i.e. the edge cases. Fully agree that ATX should hang around, but the mainstream, including enthusiast gamers (with one 1080ti) can be served wonderfully with mATX and it feels like 70% of boards should be this. I'm amazed system builders don't prefer this format because it's cheaper, and surely people would rather walk away with a case that's 5lbs lighter and 3" smaller in two dimensions? Every other device is shrinking except PCs :(
 
eddiew said:
The Strix X470-i looks good on paper, but I don't quite trust them to have used high quality VRMs. It could turn out to be yet another midrange 4+2 that's going to have heat issues with a top-tier CPU with an all-core OC. Need to see a proper breakdown before I'd go for it.</rant>
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Was in the same boat myself. I was on an ITX system before I got my Ryzen gear but figured I'd step up to an mATX setup but there just weren't any mATX boards that particularly did it for me and I don't believe there are any X470 mATX boards at all so I just stuck with ITX and got an X470-I. Only arrived today and I really can't be bothered to put it together at the moment, but reviews and comments on the board seem to be pretty good. Will be interesting to see how it goes.
 
Phemo said:
Was in the same boat myself. I was on an ITX system before I got my Ryzen gear but figured I'd step up to an mATX setup but there just weren't any mATX boards that particularly did it for me and I don't believe there are any X470 mATX boards at all so I just stuck with ITX and got an X470-I. Only arrived today and I really can't be bothered to put it together at the moment, but reviews and comments on the board seem to be pretty good. Will be interesting to see how it goes.
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Absolutely! Would be most grateful if you could report back when you've had some time with it :) What CPU are you coupling it with?

(Also if you're brave enough to pop the VRM heatsinks and have a decent camera, you could send a PCB shot to Buildzoid at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrwObTfqv8u1KO7Fgk-FXHQ and see if he's interested in doing a breakdown. Though I won't be shocked if dozens of people have sent him some already - his knowledge of electricals is amazing :D )
 
Phemo said:
I've got a 2700X. Only thing I'm not sure about is my RAM which I'm reusing from my old build. It's Corsair LPX 3200MHz which isn't on the motherboard's QVL, though it is on AMD's AM4 memory support list at https://www.amd.com/system/files/2017-06/am4-motherboard-memory-support-list-en_0.pdf Hopefully I'll get it at or near 3200MHz, but we'll soon see :)
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IIRC the specs for X470 say support for 2933 so I'd hope you'll get at least that. Asus bios is typically pretty good too, I suspect there's not much of a better chance for getting it up to full speed.
 
So far so good. I haven't checked temps out properly just yet but it's all working perfectly even with my RAM at 3200MHz so that's a good start.
 
chaparral said:
I wouldn't say that as there some pretty small ITX cases..

I myself like the new inwin A1 ITX case
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Ok, I'll rephrase xD Every device except top-tier premium-quality PCs is shrinking. There seem to be a lot of compromises involved in coming down from ATX. I can't help but feel that better quality (overkill) power phases would result in less ambient heat being distributed into small cases... but it feels like manufacturers just assume we won't even try to run the highest tier hardware in such a format.
 
eddiew said:
Ok, I'll rephrase xD Every device except top-tier premium-quality PCs is shrinking. There seem to be a lot of compromises involved in coming down from ATX. I can't help but feel that better quality (overkill) power phases would result in less ambient heat being distributed into small cases... but it feels like manufacturers just assume we won't even try to run the highest tier hardware in such a format.
Click to expand...
Looks like you can get high end itx motherboards like this one https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus...-am4-ddr4-mini-itx-motherboard-mb-6c2-as.html

but there no high end micro ATX motherboards..:confused:
 
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