Advanced driving

maccapacca said:
Mirrors first, you should know this already not when it's too late.
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How can you know if someone behind you isn't going to slow down before you even show your brake lights or indicators? Surely the prudent thing to do is to be prepared regardless of what you think the person behind you may or may not do.
 
I've recently passed the RoSPA Course as a prequisite for my Blue Light Driving (Got a Silver.. Very close to gold :o) and I will say it's the best thing i've ever done.. why it's not taught as part of the normal driving test I don't know!

I found the system of car control and cornering limit points the most usefull :)

If you want to do the test etc i'd suggest their 'Skills for Life' Package from IAM: http://www.iam.org.uk/motorist/the-advanced-programme80

At £139 it's very reasonable.
 
The idea of not braking and not shifting down at the same time is not to upset the balance of the car, also so you don't take both hands off the wheel
 
robj20 said:
whats wrong with braking and changing gear at the same time?
Ive always rev matched when down shifting usually at the same time as braking as well, less wear on the syncros and a smoother shift.
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Theres a lot wrong with it if you are driving fast.

And a lot wrong with it that wont matter very much in a few seconds time if you are doing fast on a bike.
 
NathWraith said:
The idea of not braking and not shifting down at the same time is not to upset the balance of the car, also so you don't take both hands off the wheel
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Manage it just fine in all race cars, where the speeds involved will be much more likely to upset the cars balance than Mrs Jones doing 30mph to Tescos in her 100bhp fwd hatchback.
 
Braking for traffic lights the AIM method is to brake until you need to dump the clutch to avoid stalling. No downshifts required. It's also a lot more relaxed way of driving.

Don't compare race car driving to road driving.
 
Simon said:
Braking for traffic lights the AIM method is to brake until you need to dump the clutch to avoid stalling. No downshifts required. It's also a lot more relaxed way of driving.

Don't compare race car driving to road driving.
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Thankyou. I really couldn't be arsed to reply properly to the above post but said pretty much what I was thinking!
 
So say you are approaching a roundabout that is clear and you want second gear to progress and are slowing down in 5th. Are you meant to slow the car come off the brakes then select 2nd while you are still rolling?

I've always block shifted rather than dropping through the gears but never really gave much thought as to whether I actually shift gear while on the brakes. I don't think that I do but I'll have to take note of what I do when on the road.

If they promote overtaking then one of these courses really isn't for me. I have issues with overtaking on a single carriageway (probably due to a very near miss when I was a kid with an XR3i on the wrong side of the road) so I tend to banzai it. 5 in a row would be well into three figures :o
 
Berger said:
Manage it just fine in all race cars, where the speeds involved will be much more likely to upset the cars balance than Mrs Jones doing 30mph to Tescos in her 100bhp fwd hatchback.
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In racing they don't just bring up the clutch whilst braking, the use heel and toe to match the revs on the downshift to stop the changing down from affecting the cars balance. I bet Mrs Jones does not practise heel and toe in her 100bhp fwd hatchback.

I passed my IAM half year after passing my dsa test, back when I was 18. I don't still practise all of the things taught but some of the things I was shown really did improve my driving. I will admit I don't follow the crossing of hands rule and not overlapping brakes with gears, though I tend to heel and toe a lot.
 
Simon said:
Braking for traffic lights the AIM method is to brake until you need to dump the clutch to avoid stalling. No downshifts required. It's also a lot more relaxed way of driving.

Don't compare race car driving to road driving.
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On the road I would change down a gear while braking, then if the lights changed I would have more flexibility to go without having to change down or if I had to stop it would increase engine braking, and reduce any time spent coasting with the clutch in which would be longer if slowing down in a higher gear.
 
Berger said:
On the road I would change down a gear while braking, then if the lights changed I would have more flexibility to go without having to change down or if I had to stop it would increase engine braking, and reduce any time spent coasting with the clutch in which would be longer if slowing down in a higher gear.
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But you don't need engine braking to assist modern brakes, maybe you'd have an argument back in the 50's. Remember brake setups are designed to distribute the braking force correctly to the shift in loads under braking, by adding engine braking suddenly on an axle by changing down it alters the braking force distribution. On a rwd it can be used as a technique to bring the rear end out whilst braking, on a fwd it will cause your abs to kick in earlier than it should due to the front wheels reaching their limit of grip sooner.
 
saitrix said:
But you don't need engine braking to assist modern brakes, maybe you'd have an argument back in the 50's. Remember brake setups are designed to distribute the braking force correctly to the shift in loads under braking, by adding engine braking suddenly on an axle by changing down it alters the braking force distribution. On a rwd it can be used as a technique to bring the rear end out whilst braking, on a fwd it will cause your abs to kick in earlier than it should due to the front wheels reaching their limit of grip sooner.
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I use engine braking on virtually everything I drive/ride.
 
The stance of the IAM/Roadcraft/whichever you're looking at is always

Position > Speed > Gear

So turning left into a side road from a main road would mean positioning yourself to the left of the road (as much as possible barring any hazards etc), slowing down to the speed you would take the bend at (ie, brake all the way down to that speed), then choose the appropriate gear for bend.
 
maccapacca said:
The idea is you sort your speed out before you take you hands off the steering wheel, when you heel and toe I assume you need to beacause your changing gear with one hand on the wheel.
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If you could describe how to change gear in a conventional manual without taking a hand of the steering wheel I'll be impressed.
 
squerble said:
The stance of the IAM/Roadcraft/whichever you're looking at is always

Position > Speed > Gear

So turning left into a side road from a main road would mean positioning yourself to the left of the road (as much as possible barring any hazards etc), slowing down to the speed you would take the bend at (ie, brake all the way down to that speed), then choose the appropriate gear for bend.
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This. It's all about forward planning as well. Like on a corner if the limit point isn't moving then really you need to be braking.
 
Information - Position - Speed - Gear - Acceleration

and then always give up Speed for Position and Position for Safety.

The fun began for me when I did my advanced blue light drivers training, having a strict copper who's looking to fail you isn't a fun situation, but the drive he takes you on once you've passed is :)
 
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