Advice for a new mini power house

[RetroFan]

Hey,
I'm currently investigating parts for my new build!
But I've hit a snag that I can't quite overcome... It's not as easy as I thought and need some good advice from more knowledgable folk in this field.

So here's what I'm trying to do,
I'm trying to build a M-ATX HTPC sized PC in a box similar to the AVP Gladius HPTC case.

I'm looking to play games at 1080p on ultra if possible by using a 3GB HD7950 with 8GB system Ram and whatever CPU etc I need.

Problem is, each time I pick a component it ends up either not compatible, won't fit in a M-ATX case, isn't powerful enough etc etc etc and am hoping that you guys could help me spec this thing.

So basically here is the general overview.
M-ATX CASE
M-ATX BOARD
8gb Ram
3GB HD7950 (£189 online)
CPU

I don't think I need a sound card as I intend to plug the HDMI from the card directly into my AVR and pass through all audio for my AVR to decode. If this won't work correctly however, I'll need help buying a card too

I don't need a mouse/keyboard/monitor or a large HDD or anything.

So, the plan is to build a M-ATX able to play games like Crysis etc at 1080p ultra (or as near as damit) at 60fps in the smallest, cheapest box possible.

Anyone any ideas,
Thanks in advance,
Ian

 

[RetroFan]

Hey,
Thanks for these ideas.. Will these fit a full sized 7950 and also what type of m-atx board I'll hold a CPU with its salt for 1080p 60fps gaming such as crisis 3 etc or the latest battlefield etc with settings on ultra/max.

I know the 7950 may not do crisis 3 1080p 60fps on ultra but you get my meaning

I've added the above to my basket, but I fear they may still be slightly too big (high) nd deep (length) for my rack... I have about 6" in height and about 15" in depth, width shouldn't be much an issue as it to is about 15".

Only a few items left...
My main issue was compatibility etc, all input totally welcome.
Hoping to pull the trigger the instant it's all specked

Thanks fellas

Edit
Just read full sized cards are supported

Edit 2
Just noticed you asked for my budget. Well the cheapest (but most powerful option) but I'm gonna say my budget is gonna be somewhere in the £500 mark BUT ideally I would like it the cheapest possible.

So far, I've specked up a 3GB ATI HD7950 - £189

Items needed with remaining £311
M-ATX Motherboard -
M-ATX Case -
M-ATX Power Supply
8GB RAM - (more if price difference is negligible)
CPU - (Capable of not being to much of a bottle neck for gaming 1080p 60fps ultra settings)
HDD - (Size not important)

Not needed
No cd rom (have a USB one)
No monitor/keyboard/mouse.
No sound card if I can use HDMI pass through on ati card

 

[RetroFan]

Sorry, My wording may have not been clear and concise enough, I apologise :blush:

What I meant was a micro powerhouse, a Mini-ATX (mini pc) with a powerful 2/4/8 core CPU, 3GB HD7950 with 8 GB ram etc...

I'm aiming for the most power, I can fit in an AVR sized HTPC case with all M-ATX parts etc.

Edit 1:
Just noticed your post,
Thanks for this, however the case is to large, is there a case that fits my space mentioned above? Something like an AVR or HTPC case.

Edit 2:
Here is what I have found that may help give an idea as to what I'm trying to archive but failing badly at

3GB HD7950 - £189
http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/12838275/art/generique/radeon-hd-7950-oem-3-gb-g.html

M-ATX Case - £38
http://www.******.com/448862-avp-gladius-ca32-htpc-media-case-black-red-led-450w-ca32

M-ATX Motherboard - £40
ASUS FM2A55M

CPU - £45
AMD A4-5300 2-CORE 3.6GHz 1MB Cache


I'm basically trying to build a living room of that will sit next to my blu ray player etc but be a gaming PC. So I'm trying to build the most powerful m-ATX pc I can that will fit under a tv where my Xbox used to be

 

[RetroFan]

YOUR BASKET
1 x **B Grade** Intel Core i5-2500 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £125.99
1 x Silverstone Sugo SG02B-F Case - Black (SST-SG02B-F USB 3.0) £59.99
1 x Asus P8H61-MX USB 3.0 Intel H61 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard - OEM ** £43.99
1 x BeQuiet Pure Power L7 430W '80 Plus' Power Supply £39.95
1 x Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) £39.95
1 x **B Grade** Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-252-SE) £30
Total : £353.36 (includes shipping : £11.25).

This is interesting!
Thanks Idleman. Are these components faster/better that the AMD A4-5300 2-CORE 3.6GHz 1MB Cache and the Asus board? If so, are they that much better that the cost justifys it... CPU is 3 times more costly, is it worth it strictly for gaming with a 7950? Will that CPU get me more fps or is the difference negligible and therefore worth spending toward more/faster other parts etc?

This is dam close to what I was trying to achieve though, will this do gaming @ 1080p on ultra with a 3gb 7950 plugged in? What could we do to make it even better by "moving money around" etc?

Thanks for helping me out here, this is really really appreciated! This is almost exactly what I was trying to do but was struggling to do so.

 

[RetroFan]

Should do fine. The i5 is much more powerful than the A4. However you will need a 500W PSU. Like such:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-116-CS&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat=2463

Amazing, will this will fit and function in that case perfectly?
I can order it, build it, play it?

With this current build, what would give it the next biggest bump up in power performance by moving money or spending very little more? How could we maximise this current spec to give the most performance without spending much more OR if the next jump up is to much that's fine as is

Would this give a 1080p 60fps gaming experience on max or ultra settings?

Sorry for all the questions, but this is fantastic help, I'm excited and just want to get this right. I've been trying for days to get a powerful little pc, but kept failing

 

[RetroFan]

With the recent games, it should play most of them on max/near max. Alternatively if you're willing to spend a good deal more you can get a CPU and motherboard which can be overclocked:

YOUR BASKET
1 x intel core i5-3570k 3.40ghz (ivybridge) socket lga1155 processor (77w) - retail £199.99
1 x asrock z77 extreme4 m intel z77 (socket 1155) ddr3 motherboard £101.99
1 x silverstone sugo sg02b-f case - black (sst-sg02b-f usb 3.0) £59.99
1 x corsair builder series cx 500w modular '80 plus bronze' power supply (cp-9020059-uk) £54.98
1 x kingston hyperx genesis grey 8gb (2x4gb) ddr3 pc3-12800c9 1600mhz dual channel kit (khx1600c9d3x2k2/8gx) £39.95
1 x **b grade** seagate barracuda 7200.12 500gb sata 6gb/s 16mb cache - oem (hd-252-se) £30.00
total : £501.00 (includes shipping : £11.75).



however due to the nature of the case i suspect 4ghz will probably be the safest overclock you can get.

thanks for taking the time to help me out here, so i have 2 options, an on budget version and an over budget version.

now, let's say i don't over clock it (keep noise to a minimum due to being in living room) would the cost difference between these too justify itself?

for example, hypothetically speaking if i play option 1 with crysis 3 at 1080p all settings max/ultra and option 2 crysis 3 at 1080p all settings max/ultra would there be £150 worth of difference, or would it be like 1 or 2 frames per second? in your opinion of course, i know we can't scientifically do this test, but as a best, educated guess scenario type thing, just how much difference would these machines be at stock... and if we over locked to 4ghz?

with these cpu and a 7950 would i get close to 1080p 60fps or am i kidding my self?

games like
battlefield series
crysis 1/2/3
pcars
dirt 2/3
f1 2012
tomb raider

edit:
would i be better getting a different card, they have 2gb asus gtx 660 (over clocked / super clocked) for £144 would this be a better choice?
http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/12821060/art/pny/geforce-gtx-660-xlr8-edit.html

It's cheaper but a "vs" search returns mixed results?

 

[RetroFan]

With quite a few of those games it should be possible, but BF3 and Crysis 3 might be a tad more difficult and you may need to sacrifice some detail settings. However, I suggest playing with some of the detail settings anyway, you may find there's not much difference between max and the one below it. Idleman's spec will probably be worth your money if keeping it quiet is important.

Great stuff,
And what do you think about the 3GB 7850 and the 2GB 660? Which is the better choice? The 2GB 660 is about £50 cheaper but reviews and benchmarks are like a see saw. Have you any experience or idea which card would go better in Idlemans £350 spec for 1080p 60fps gaming of the above mentioned games?

 

[RetroFan]

The 7950 is a much better card than the 660. The 660 is about 7850 level. A 660ti just abovr a 7870 and the 670 is equal to a 7950.

Brilliant!
Thanks bacon!

So far then, for £500 i can build an adequate micro 1080p gaming PC.

Now...
Is it worth bumping RAM to 16gb or to a faster speed and, if so, how much gaming improvement will this give me, if we do?

Is it worth bumping the CPU to the second CPU (3570) version from the 2400 (both mentioned above by idleman) and how much gaming improvement will this give me, if we do?

Do I need a sound card or can I just pump all audio bit streamed to my AVR in PCM or Dolby, DTS-HD etc via 7950 HDMI?

Thanks so much for this guys, the CREDIT CARD is out of its holster and beginning to get a little over excited

I feel like a kid at Christmas (I'm 34) lol

Basically, the reason for doing this is... I am selling both my consoles and moving to pc gaming, however i still need living room friendly kit, like a console is...

It's either that, or I wait for the PS4 instead, So that's the next question... Is this build good enough to be on par with the next gen comsoles, or do i wait for the PS4 etc?

 

[RetroFan]

No point having more than 8GB RAM for gaming, if you were doing video editing or CAD work then it would make sense but not for gaming.

The 3570K is a chip than can be overclocked by raising the multiplier, you can easily get a 1Ghz overclock on it but you will need a CPU cooler, which is hard because of the case.

On board audio is fairly decent these days and I use the onboard audio for my surround headphones (Corsair 1500's and its good quality).

Thanks bacon,
So basically more/faster ram won't make a "huge" difference.
The CPU upgrade will make a difference, but cost vs noise vs performance gain = maybe not worth it... (out of curiosity how many FPS increase do you think I'd get by upgrading to this CPU @ 1080p on Crysis 2/3 Dirt3 / Tomb Raider for example) if its like 4 fps etc I'm not that fussed but if it was 10/15 fps well that me be worth the upgrade...

With regards to on board audio, I would usually disable the on board audio and just use my HDMI on the GPU card.

Will games be ok with me having no sound card and just spitting out pure 7ch PCM or bitstream DTS or DD HD formats etc via the HDMI on the 7950 to my AVR... or is a sound card required for some games to activate certain options etc? (console gamer here used to 1 HDMI no additional sound card and full HD audio support (ps3) type scenario)

Sorry for the questions guys but this helps me incredibly!

I don't want to eff up this build and make a mistake

 

[RetroFan]

The 2500K will be a good cheaper alternative and will perform very similiar to the 3570K, both are based off the same architecture, with the 3570K on a smaller process and slightly tweaked for more a little more performance: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-360-IN&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat=1275

You need a P67/Z68/Z77 board however to overclock these CPUs.

Hey,
Thanks orcvader

So in essence the 2500k should be a very similar performer to the 3570k (if not over clocking) and the difference in purely 1080p gaming should be negligible?

Is there a difference between a 2500 and a 2500k? Or is that just missing from the name in the link?

Thanks everyone,
This is truly appreciated and unbelievably helpful.
Do you think then that the £350 build with a 3GB 7950 thrown in to make it £500 is a good 1080p gaming machine, will it old up, will it do 60fps, will it be as good as the next gen consoles or will it not hold up?

 

[RetroFan]

Sound will be fine, so no need to worry about that.

Any Intel chip with a "K" at the end means they can be overclocked. They also have better inbuilt GPUs as well, but for a gaming build that doesn't really matter since you will be using a discrete card.

Overall the system should easily do 60fps on most games. As for how it will perform compared to next gen consoles, hardware wise the PC will be better, but seeing as consoles will have better developer support, this will make games more optimized for them. But the PS4 is also x86 based just like PCs... so... I have no idea .

That's cool,
Thanks again for all the info,
As long as I won't be left in the dark with newer games thts ok
Im looking to play future games such as watchdogs etc at good frame rates (console level or better) without loosing shed loads of detail etc

If this box will do that, then I'm happy!
So,I've made a Basket I'll post it in a second and see what everyone thinks and if anyone thinks it can be improved dramatically in any particular way

Edit:
Your basket
Product Name

Gigabyte ATi Radeon HD 7950 Windforce 3X 3072MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card with Crysis 3 & Bioshock PC Games £239.99

**B Grade** Intel Core i5-2500 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £125.99

Silverstone Sugo SG02B-F Case - Black (SST-SG02B-F USB 3.0) £59.99

Asus P8H61-MX USB 3.0 Intel H61 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard - OEM ** £43.99

XFX Pro 450W Core Edition '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply £39.95

Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) £39.95

**B Grade** Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-252-SE) £30.00

Total £593.95 (inc vat and shipping)
Total £543.95 (Inc vat and shipping and buying 7950 card from pcworld instead)

Ignore the price of the 7950 card as it £50 cheaper at pcworld so I'll grab it from there, but the general spec is the same as above.

How's that seem to you all for a M-ATX gaming pc?

Note:
Spec above is all thanks to everyone in this thread helping me out! Full marks to them for helping me solve my issue and caring enough to actually help seek out parts! I can't thank everyone enough!

 

[RetroFan]

I built an internet pc with the sugo case and you definately want the smallest length psu as space is at a premium. The one below is only 140mm deep. Also as there is not really any cable management so the fully modular design will make it a bit easier.

YOUR BASKET
1 x Silverstone Strider Plus 500W Modular '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply (SST-ST50F-P) £67.99
Total : £77.89 (includes shipping : £8.25).

Hi,
Thanks for the advice, hearing from actual users of all this stuff really makes it easier. I appreciate everyone taking time to post advice.

Do you think your PSU would be more suited than the one I have in my basket above?

 

[RetroFan]

The XFX has the same dimensions as the Silverstone.
RetroFan, don`t forget to include some 80mm fans in your spec, as I mentioned before, no fans supplied with the case.

Will I definetly need them. Im doing no over clocking, default spec on all products.

If so, how many, just 2 or something you think maybe?

Would I need anything else at all, to ensure that this package was all ready to go on arrival? Have I missed anything at all?

DVD not required (USB version here)
OS not required (will move my revo win 7 licence over)
No wifi required (on board nic)
No sound card needed (using HDMI to AVR to tv)
No keyboard/mouse needed (got plenty)
No monitor needed (going to tv)

This will be a gaming box only... Nothing else, just gaming

 

[RetroFan]

Will do,

Thanks everyone!

 

[RetroFan]

Well, as luck would have it, this case won't fit in my cabinet, it's too high for my self

Is there any other (smaller case) that this exact build will fit into... I have ATX 6" in height for the case...

Any ideas guys?

 

[RetroFan]

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-001-SR&tool=5

Would that be ok with all of the above spec? Would it all definitely fit in side?

 

[RetroFan]

Dammit!

Thanks RJC,
Any idea what the smallest case I can fit my spec into.. I'll post the spec here, I only have bout 6.5" height Clarence MAX including feet etc ...

 

[RetroFan]

Gigabyte ATi Radeon HD 7950 Windforce 3X 3072MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card with Crysis 3 & Bioshock PC Games £239.99

**B Grade** Intel Core i5-2500 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £125.99

Silverstone Sugo SG02B-F Case - Black (SST-SG02B-F USB 3.0) £59.99

Asus P8H61-MX USB 3.0 Intel H61 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard - OEM ** £43.99

XFX Pro 450W Core Edition '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply £39.95

Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) £39.95

**B Grade** Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-252-SE) £30.00

Total £593.95 (inc vat and shipping)
Total £543.95 (Inc vat and shipping and buying 7950 card from pcworld instead)

 

[RetroFan]

Im Looking for a case (M-ATX) that is smaller than 6" in height.
Depth and width I have more room to play with, but height is limited.

Any one any ideas on the smallest ase this pec will fit into.. I'm struggling

Living Room Gaming PC Spec!

Gigabyte ATi Radeon HD 7950 Windforce 3X 3072MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card with Crysis 3 & Bioshock PC Games £239.99

**B Grade** Intel Core i5-2500 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £125.99

Silverstone Sugo SG02B-F Case - Black (SST-SG02B-F USB 3.0) £59.99

Asus P8H61-MX USB 3.0 Intel H61 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard - OEM ** £43.99

XFX Pro 450W Core Edition '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply £39.95

Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX) £39.95

**B Grade** Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-252-SE) £30.00

Total £593.95 (inc vat and shipping)
Total £543.95 (Inc vat and shipping and buying 7950 card from pcworld instead)

 

[RetroFan]

These are the only 2 I can find that should accommodate the spec. Both come with fans included, will house the Psu and take a Gpu( be sure to check the lenght of the card you are buying) up to 11" in lenght.

YOUR BASKET
1 x Silverstone Grandia GD04 Desktop Case - Silver (SST-GD04S USB 3.0) £89.99
1 x Silverstone Grandia GD05 Desktop HTPC Case - Black (SST-GD05B USB3.0) £79.99
Total : £182.28 (includes shipping : £10.25).



http://www.anandtech.com/show/5485/amd-radeon-hd-7950-launch-recap

Cool,
Thanks Idleman.
I really appreciate it! I think that's me done now? I think I can finally pull the trigger and start having some fun

It comes with fans etc, so... Is there anything else I'll need?

1 last thing,
Could I crossfire 2 7950s in this rig?
Would it fit, would the motherboard/case allow it, is it worth it?

If i grab the k version CPU to allow a small over clock, would that mean changing the motherboard too, does this one support basic over clocking?

Thanks again bro,
Totally appreciate this, I know it's a lot of questions but I'm just stumped as my restrictions/requirements are so strict (and I don't know a bread deal about parts) that its really difficult :blush:

I looked into buying a pre built one, but no where sells them :-/ unless someone on here's selling one per built