Advice with pay rise letter

I’ve got a career coach based in the Winchester area.

Not only is he a fantastic coach, he’s also one of the loveliest human beings on this planet.


This is exactly the kind of thing he’d be able to help out with.



Let me know if you would like an introduction - completely obligation free :)


Edit: for clarity - I don’t get anything out of it. I just think he’s an awesome person and seems like he’d be a perfect source of guidance in this instance.
 
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MrRockliffe said:
I’ve got a career coach based in the Winchester area.

Not only is he a fantastic coach, he’s also one of the loveliest human beings on this planet.


This is exactly the kind of thing he’d be able to help out with.



Let me know if you would like an introduction - completely obligation free :)


Edit: for clarity - I don’t get anything out of it. I just think he’s an awesome person and seems like he’d be a perfect source of guidance in this instance.
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Yes please. I was thinking about getting a mentor/coach from the industry but I'd welcome an introduction with yours.

How has he helped you?
 
DB_SamX said:
Yes please. I was thinking about getting a mentor/coach from the industry but I'd welcome an introduction with yours.

How has he helped you?
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Has helped me with processes for interviews/job applications and that kind of thing.

But most of all, it’s the mentality and understanding he’s helped with most - a better, deeper understanding of the psychology around going for a job/asking for a pay rise/negotiating.


I’ll send you a PM :-)
 
Interesting to hear about the coaching stuff. It’s not something I’ve ever personally considered, but people that are very much ‘ladder climbers’ do seem to be people that read books and take training on this stuff. This seems to be especially the case with management roles… they need to be business smart and often career smart, so I suppose that’s where the training helps. Managing people upwards and downwards is a skill and it’s probably not something I’d be good at without coaching.

Some more general thoughts on this topic…

From my own extremely limited experience, a lot of pay rise and promotion stuff is out of your control. Budgets are set, there are pecking orders, your own work has dependencies that can fall through… the ‘machine’ of the workplace can keep you down, or just the type of work. In my previous job I was doing something that was very fiddly and hard but in hindsight it was honestly very difficult to show ‘outstanding value’ amongst everyone else, even though I was somewhat well-regarded as someone that was rock-solid with my output.

I’m now in a new role and there is so much more runway to show off. It’s equally hard but in much better ways. So I’ve gained an even better reputation than before as being ‘the guy that pulls through’. Much more interesting role and better suited to me in almost every way.

… and even then, getting a promotion has been like pulling teeth, to the point where I made it very clear that the situation was so absurd then I’d rather not work at all than put up with this undervalued BS. Things that got in the way included team re-shuffles, managers leaving, wider company performance, new rules implemented mid-review cycle and other things that seemed purposefully designed to make me rage. Ffffff!

I suppose what I’m getting at with my ramble is… there is going to be some level of BS in most places, even when jobs are generally very good and pay very well.

So don’t beat yourself up too much :)
 
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I'd be a bit wary of career coaches etc.. sort of like a guy who just did an 8-week personal training course and then educates you on nutrition etc.. he isn't really going to be an expert.

It might be useful in the case of someone who used to work in your industry in a senior-ish role and is now semi-retired. For example, I can see on linked in a former MD from a firm I worked at is now a coach (edit; apparently an "executive coach" even), though I suspect he was made redundant and needed to find something to do. Those people have at least achieved something first, likewise, a former HR person might be useful too, especially if relevant to your industry.

I also know a coach who is a bit of a lunatic, she's not really had a particularly successful career herself but now she has a coaching business. If people haven't actually had any career success themselves then it seems a bit sus that they can purport to offer much other than regurgitate some material from their 8-week how to be a coach course and you can no doubt find similar online for yourself.

Nitefly said:
Interesting to hear about the coaching stuff. It’s not something I’ve ever personally considered, but people that are very much ‘ladder climbers’ do seem to be people that read books and take training on this stuff. This seems to be especially the case with management roles… they need to be business smart and often career smart, so I suppose that’s where the training helps. Managing people upwards and downwards is a skill and it’s probably not something I’d be good at without coaching.
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That's not necessarily the same thing, career coaches are (ostensibly) sort of there to motivate you and help you take the right approach to reach career goals etc... they're not there to train you in how to do some part of your job like managing people though there are leadership/management training type courses you can be sent on for that sort of thing.
 
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The issue I've had with formal coaching is maybe aligning my expectations to what it should achieve. I normally come away thinking "OK there were some useful little titbits, I could try doing X and Y a bit more" but holistically it's never actually made me consider a fundamental change of trajectory. In recent times I'd say being prompted to think about my personal 'brand' is one of the more valuable insights, i.e. consider how I'd want a business acquaintance to introduce me to others in the organisation, reflecting on how others perceive me etc, and tailor my approach to building that brand into what I want it to be. The soundbite that resonated was the coach explaining that if you don't set out your personal brand (I'd never really thought about trying to direct it myself just occasionally reflected on how I hoped I came across), then others assign it for you, so it's generally desirable to influence that yourself.
 
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I thought I would get an update on this.

I didn't set up a 1-to-1 chat with the one of the board directors, as we had PDAs due in September, followed by pay rises due in October. So I thought I would just want for the PDA.

Unfortunately, this got delayed to October, then November, so obviously I got frustrated. During that time, I became aware of a Technical Director role at a local competitor. When enquiring about it (no salary range posted), even without a CV or anything, they invited me for an interview (they must have looked me up on LinkedIn). I went for two interviews over a month, and they were keen, although they still dodged the salary question when I asked.

When the PDA finally took place, I set out my position, and basically told them that unless they could offer me better, I would continue to the final interview. Thankfully they took is seriously, and within a week, my company verbally told me I'd be promoted next financial year + pay rise. I told myself I would wait for something in writing before stopping the interview process. Finally just before Christmas, I was given a letter confirming the promotion to a (non board/exec) director + 10% pay rise (half of which is due to promotion), effective from January. As that was my target, I cancelled the 3rd interview due today. So for now, I am happy with what is on the table, and stop thinking about moving in the short to medium term.
 
Any reason (other than getting the offer from current place) why you didn't continue with the interview process?
 
Fair enough you are happy in the short to medium term, but surely the right move was to go to the 3rd interview as you had already done 2 and find out what the full salary/offer is.
 
A2Z said:
Fair enough you are happy in the short to medium term, but surely the right move was to go to the 3rd interview as you had already done 2 and find out what the full salary/offer is.
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A few things really - I was/am happy in my current company other than salary/progression which is now fulfilled, work/projects I do, it's 10mins from home, I have a lot of flexibility and autonomy, good pension, lots of annual leave earnt for long service, I am working on improving the business, and in general better the devil you know. The new place would have been a 30-40 minute commute each way, with having to start from scratch, opening myself up to new probation period, likely full time in the office, and generally only a sideways step in terms of challenge, etc. I also expected them to find out about the promotion through mutual work acquaintances quickly.

I had told myself that if they still wanted to interview me after me telling them, I would have gone for it, but I wouldn't have gone there hiding the promotion. Maybe they would have offered more, but even so, it would have taken at least another 10% on top for me to be remotely interested.

Finally, I don't believe I have burnt bridges with the other company; it remains an option in future.
 
ahhhh I don't want to be too negative but I think you approached this the wrong way even if it didn't actually turn out too badly in the end.

Firstly it's not generally a good idea to threaten to leave like that part way through an interview process... imagine they don't offer what you want and you don't land the other job either... then you're sat there like a chump, people lose bonuses or payrises over that sort of thing.

Secondly, if you thought you had good odds of landing the job then it's crazy (and bad form really) to not follow through and actually see what they'd have offered, not only might you surprise yourself (they're bidding to take you away after all) but also it gives you an actual data point re: what you could earn externally and an offer in hand is a much more powerful tool to ask for more money from your current employer.

Lastly, you basically don't have a pay rise, inflation last year is like 10% so you're exactly where you started this time last year but with a title change. You do mention that they only gave 2k or just over 3% last year and maybe you wouldn't have otherwise expected 10% this year (people will be losing money due to inflation) but I think if that's it for your annual rise + raise for the promo then that's not good.
 
I agree with dowie. I personally wouldn't have stayed for a 10% pay bump and a title change. When I took a counteroffer some years ago, it was for a 33% pay rise, and a move to a much better internal team that led to a massive career opportunity for me a year later.

With that said, if you're happy with what you got, then good for you. :)
 
Yeah I was reading the update waiting for the punchline and when it arrived, 10% seemed a pretty poor show from the employer, even if it was the original target. Given the role/title change, I thought you would've got more.

Basically you got £62k+10% = £68200, when the market rate last year for your old role was £65-70k, allowing for inflation that puts you on the bottom end of what you should've been paid anyway without taking on additional responsibilities. It sounds like you were due 5% anyway.

You say 10% more from the other place would have got you remotely interested, it doesn't sound unreasonable that they'd be offering you say high 70s or more for a Director role i.e. 15%+ increment over your new salary (based on your benchmark of non-director role market rates being 65-70 last year), but as you've stated the current role carries some other benefits like travel time and such that need to weighed up.
 
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Yeah, you don't really get to have these significant renegotiations very often. Seems a shame to have used one of them on a 10% raise, particularly when a promotion was involved.
 
I appreciate the honest opinions, it is food for thought.

I am honestly happy with the 10pc for now. All the other benefits, contractual and otherwise, make it worth staying put for the time being. If i regret it in 6 months, I'll come back to update thjs thread!
 
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