AIDS and stigma

cleanbluesky · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:05

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/6196360.stm

BBC have done an article about some people who live with AIDS and it has got me thinking about the issue...

In the climate of individualism (whereby we are supposed to 'ignore' certain associations about people, such as group membership or physical characteristics) and of equality and diversity there seems to be the question arising of what reception inidividuals with AIDS and HIV should get from society.

Read the stories, and also understand that the experiences that these Russians are finding are also manifest in the UK, and in other countries. I have known a few people with STDs including HIV and similar and I know that they face such issues everyday. Knowing whether to tell anyone, wondering what sort of a life they can have, uncertainty about the future...
I know that often they are treated like lepers, but I also know that many do not treat them in such a way.

But, HIV is a serious condition and whilst antiviral treatments are effective it is still infectious and still a significant threat to anyone who catches it.

robmiller · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:09

They shouldn't get any stigma at all, and I would hope they didn't. I wouldn't have stigma against someone with HIV just as I wouldn't have stigma against someone with cancer, or MS, or any other disease/condition. It's just common decency.

As this will inevitably touch on the subject of banning people with hereditary diseases breeding: we could eradicate a lot of diseases if we prevented people with them from having children, but I'd rather live in a society with freedom and disease than vice versa.

Grrrrr · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:11

robmiller said:
They shouldn't get any stigma at all, and I would hope they didn't. I wouldn't have stigma against someone with HIV just as I wouldn't have stigma against someone with cancer, or MS, or any other disease/condition. It's just common decency.

Would you date someone with HIV?

cleanbluesky · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:12

Grrrrr said:
Would you date someone with HIV?

And would you or he stop dating someone if you discovered they had HIV?

Yewen · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:15

cleanbluesky said:
And would you or he stop dating someone if you discovered they had HIV?

If I loved them it would make no difference.

cleanbluesky · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:16

Yewen said:
If I loved them it would make no difference.

And what of the idea that your child were to have HIV?

Pebbles · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:16

Grrrrr said:
Would you date someone with HIV?

If I'm completely honest, not knowingly no. Would I stop if I found out further down the line? I don't know, it would depend on my feelings at the time I guess.

It's been a while since I've had a good flaming, bring it on.

Edited after a bit of a ponder - I cant imagine being able to carry on a relationship with someone who had HIV. With the best will in the world, it would constantly be at the back of my mind.

That said, if someone I was already in a relationship with contracted or found out they had HIV while I was with them I'd like to think I would behave differently. But I dont know.

cleanbluesky · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:17

Pebbles said:
If I'm completely honest, not knowingly no. Would I stop if I found out further down the line? I don't know, it would depend on my feelings at the time I guess.

It's been a while since I've had a good flaming, bring it on.

You shouldn't be flamed for that, it's a perfectly reasonable position... probably the most decent answer possible in fact.

Yewen · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:18

cleanbluesky said:
And what of the idea that your child were to have HIV?

That would be something you would not wish upon anyone, especially someone you would love.

The sensible thing is not to have a child under those circumstances and adopt.

I am not in the situation so I can not really comment on the child aspect, but I am 100% clear that if someone I loved had HIV it would not impact my opinion of them in the slightest.

SidewinderINC · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:20

Pebbles said:
If I'm completely honest, not knowingly no. Would I stop if I found out further down the line? I don't know, it would depend on my feelings at the time I guess.

It's been a while since I've had a good flaming, bring it on.

you're brave, i was going to post the same but decided against it at first.

i know its *morrally wrong* to say no i wouldnt date somebody with HIV, but even with all preventative precautions for the transfer of it i'd still feel uncomfortable.

and on finding out further down the line, it all depends under what circumstances. if they knew all along - i'd be out of there sooner than you could blink. i find something of that significance in a relationship should be dealt with at the earliest point.
if they only just found out, then most likely i'd stay.

robmiller · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:30

Grrrrr said:
Would you date someone with HIV?

Hmm, it's hard to say. I presume by "date" you mean "have sex with", right?

I mean, it's possible and even probable to have sex with an HIV positive person and not develop the disease, but it's still a huge risk and one that has potentially life-ruining consequences…

It would be a hugely tough decision. I wouldn't rule it out, but being brutally honest I'd say it was unlikely.

Does this count as stigma? I dunno. I wouldn't want to have sex with someone with any kind of sexually transmitted disease/infection but that doesn't mean I'd treat them any different in a societal sense. Hmm.

cleanbluesky · 1 Dec 2006 at 13:35

robmiller said:
I wouldn't want to have sex with someone with any kind of sexually transmitted disease/infection but that doesn't mean I'd treat them any different in a societal sense. Hmm.

What's treating them differently in a 'societal sense' if not treating them different on some issues...

Vonhelmet · 1 Dec 2006 at 18:37

On a tangent, I think it is scandalous that AIDS still spreads in the Western world when we know how it spreads and how to prevent it.

To that end I'd have less sympathy than you probably think I should for someone who contracted it.

Jonny69 · 1 Dec 2006 at 18:49

Pebbles said:
If I'm completely honest, not knowingly no. Would I stop if I found out further down the line? I don't know, it would depend on my feelings at the time I guess.

It's been a while since I've had a good flaming, bring it on.

Edited after a bit of a ponder - I cant imagine being able to carry on a relationship with someone who had HIV. With the best will in the world, it would constantly be at the back of my mind.

That said, if someone I was already in a relationship with contracted or found out they had HIV while I was with them I'd like to think I would behave differently. But I dont know.

If I'm completely honest I wouldn't either but I'm not sure if I would end it if I found out. My other half of 5 years now has an incurable disease that will ultimately kill her quite early (which we found out about last year) and our kids have a pretty high chance of being born with it. Not her fault but it doesn't affect me. HIV would affect me I think and it would be something you'd have to be careful about.

Psyk · 1 Dec 2006 at 18:51

SidewinderINC said:
i know its *morrally wrong* to say no i wouldnt date somebody with HIV, but even with all preventative precautions for the transfer of it i'd still feel uncomfortable.

I would disagree. Is it morally wrong to not date a fat bird? It would be morally wrong to say no in an offensive way of course. But I don't think it's morally wrong to refuse to go out with her.

Not quite the same as someone with AIDS but my point is, I don't think any reason for turning someone down is morally wrong. It's your decision, you can base it on anything you like.

I wouldn't go out with someone with AIDS because it would add too many complications to the relationship. Just like I wouldn't date someone with 5 kids. Or someone that's in prison.

crystaline · 1 Dec 2006 at 18:55

vonhelmet said:
On a tangent, I think it is scandalous that AIDS still spreads in the Western world when we know how it spreads and how to prevent it.

To that end I'd have less sympathy than you probably think I should for someone who contracted it.

There are many different stories for people who have contracted it in the West, I don't think it is as simple as you are implying.
Although sometimes it may be down to irresponsibility, many times it is not.

If you find out or suspect a person you have had sex with is a carrier, you can get a course of medication immediately which will prevent it taking hold.
Although this is not a well known fact and I only found out about it myself when a friend was told they were too late for this treatment.

I will be interested in the result of the two ongoing HIV 'vaccine' trials.

Posty · 1 Dec 2006 at 19:07

cleanbluesky said:
And would you or he stop dating someone if you discovered they had HIV?

Yes i would, if they didn't tell me they had HIV when i first met them, or before i first slept with them i would go crazy and dump them. If they somehow got it while dating me i would question how that would happen and again would probably lead me to dumping them

Grrrrr · 1 Dec 2006 at 19:11

Posty said:
Yes i would, if they didn't tell me they had HIV when i first met them, or before i first slept with them i would go crazy and dump them. If they somehow got it while dating me i would question how that would happen and again would probably lead me to dumping them

And if she contracted HIV whilst you were already in a relationship by some completely innocent means? (For example from treading on an infected needle or by blood transfer in a sporting collision)

Jonny69 · 1 Dec 2006 at 19:12

Psyk said:
I wouldn't go out with someone with AIDS because it would add too many complications to the relationship. Just like I wouldn't date someone with 5 kids. Or someone that's in prison.

At the end of the day relationships are hard enough work as it is and the less complications you chuck in the works the better. You'd be stupid to take all that on knowingly if you ask me, the added pressure, knowing they are going to die early at some point in the near future, all the illness near the end. You don't need all that and with so many other fish in the sea you can have a much easier life elsewhere if you have the choice.

Posty · 1 Dec 2006 at 19:15

Grrrrr said:
And if she contracted HIV whilst you were already in a relationship by some completely innocent means? (For example from treading on an infected needle or by blood transfer in a sporting collision)

cases of contracting HIV from those scenarios are almost non existent, so i dunno what i would feel then

AIDS and stigma

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