AIO vs Air vs Custom cooling at a budget ?

[2013]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for a little advice, I'm not sure what to do,
Should I keep a custom loop for my upgrade or switch to a Air or AIO cooler.


I have a custom water cooling set up (360 black ice stealth rad, phobya 450 pump and 250 res, EK supreme original water block 1/4 compression fitting), which I was hoping to use with my upgrade but the water block has been discontinued

Spoiler: image

im not sure if i can get the mounting plates, I've sent EK a email but had no reply, so i may need to buy a new block, I will also have other basic costs like new tubing, coolant ext and my other parts are a few years old, So Im taking a look to see which would be the best option for me, buy what is need or switch.


I thought I would wright a few pros and cons that may help me if anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

Air

Pros

Little to no maintenance.
No leak worries.
Will last you much longer

Cons

Size wieght
CPU Clearance, overlapping ( ram, pci ext )

AIO

Pros

CPU clearance
looks good

Cons

Will not last as long

Custom

Pros

Can be customised, upgraded
Better looking
Should be cooler
CPU clearance

Cons

Cost
High maintenance
Leak worries
Because its custom you cant be sure its cooler unless you compare.


Does anyone know if thermalright stopped supplying to companies in the UK ?


Which would I be better off doing ??

 

[EsaT]

Does anyone know if thermalright stopped supplying to companies in the UK ?

Shops dropping out Thermalright has been happening also elsewhere.
Sadly Thermalright seems to be out of fashion maker nowadays despite of making high performance coolers at very good price.


If you want maximum cooling power then "waterpipe coolers" have advantage.
Though cheap AIOs aren't that good and besides so and so cooling power from smaller radiators those have also lower quality.
(like mix of alu and copper parts risking galvanic corrosion unless liquid is electrically non conductive)
Also that better cooling power than heatpipe coolers needs big radiator.


Anyway that CPU of your PC was power hog already at default and with overclocking it's certainly even more so.
While still having turning electricity into heat as only high performance area...
Unless you like that heating power wouldn't it be time to consider upgrading?
Modern CPUs can be kept cool enough by air coolers.
Just as an example of how bad Bulldozer architecture is Ryzen likely has some 60-70% higher instructions per clock performance.

Though if Intel makes 8 core Coffee Lake that's going to be one very hot chip with that toothpaste under heatspreader instead of solder.
(and they no doubt want to charge for new motherboard just to make sure of good enough VRMs)


Scythe Mugen 5 would be likely the biggest tower cooler without any clearance issues and with ability to take DIMMs on both side of CPU.
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8320/scythe-mugen-5-rev-cpu-cooler-review/index5.html
And Scythe is another maker without brand/hype overcharging.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/scythe-scmg-5000-mugen-5-cpu-cooler-hs-046-sy.html

Though in most platforms you need memory clearance only on one side like Macho 120
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7810/thermalright-macho-120-sbm-cpu-cooler-review/index5.html

Noctua NH-D15S isn't as good spreading above "memory space" on both sides also covering motherboard's attachment screw.
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7301/noctua-nh-d15s-style-cpu-cooler-review/index5.html
(access to motherboard's attaching screws is important if wanting to mount/unmount heatsink outside case)

 

[doyll]

Knowing what motherboard, RAM and case you will be using would allow us to suggest coolers that will fit and clear your system.

Even though Thermalright is not as popular as it used to be they are still making very good coolers. They are available on that river site.

I used custom loops for many years, then changed back to air about 7 years ago when Thermalright started making high performance heatpipe air coolers like Ultima, Ultra and then IFX-14 and Silver Arrow.

Only AIO/CLC I've kept in a system longer than it took to test is be quiet! Silent Loop which is an AIO, not a CLC. All CLCs are AIOs, but not all AIOs are CLCs.

With few exceptions CLCs are a sub-group of AIO that are factory sealed units with no provision for maintenance or repair. They have aluminum radiators, no threaded fittings, no fill port, and pumps that move very little coolant (cc 40-60L/h) and almost always much louder than air cooler even at idle because of pump noise.

AIOs like be quiet! Silent Loop, Swiftech H series, Fractal Design Kelvin and Alphacool Eisbaer have threaded fittings (so components can be changed / hose length custom fit, etc), fill port, copper radiator, and pumps flowing 72-660 L/h. But they are still not as good or well built as upper level custom loop components and cost more that a good air cooler that with good case airflow will give similar performance.

The best way for most user is good air cooling. It costs less, is more dependable, almost never wears out (only TIM and fan age) and are quieter when system airflow is setup properly.

 

[2013]

Thanks Guys.
Any reason why Thermalright is getting dropped ?
I've not found any UK suppliers selling Thermalright full range and only 1 selling just one model.
I was looking at the thermalright true spirit 140 with the other brands but you cant get them.

I am looking to switch to a ryzen im just not sure which motherboard at this point, ram and GPUs are putting me of a little, It's been a year or since i last looked so im doing a little research before i but even if i don't upgrade straightaway I can still use the cooler on my old build.

@doyll so i would be better off either getting a air cooler, upgrading the CLC ?

How much better on average are CLC ?
you cant really compare them, or nothing that i have found due to non being the same.
From what I see I will be spending atleast £50 to upgrade the CLC unless i pick up a used block and chances are I could get issues with the other parts like the pump.

Whats putting me off.
the time needed to fit
maintenance over time.
Leak test and Chances of still leaking later leaks
Part costs, if i did not already have most of parts, i'm not sure if I would look into this.



Whats putting me off from a Air cooler is 2 things,
one is the size, I will need to check if it will fit the motherboard i have now and the one when i upgrade and it will not cover anything.
Two They always look like a huge metal block the ones that don't will not cool that well.

how much of a difference would i see between the D15 and the smaller u14.

You dont have a size comparison for the air coolers do you

 

[doyll]

Thanks Guys.
Any reason why Thermalright is getting dropped ?
I've not found any UK suppliers selling Thermalright full range and only 1 selling just one model.
I was looking at the thermalright true spirit 140 with the other brands but you cant get them.

I am looking to switch to a ryzen im just not sure which motherboard at this point, ram and GPUs are putting me of a little, It's been a year or since i last looked so im doing a little research before i but even if i don't upgrade straightaway I can still use the cooler on my old build.

@doyll so i would be better off either getting a air cooler, upgrading the CLC ?

How much better on average are CLC ?
you cant really compare them, or nothing that i have found due to non being the same.
From what I see I will be spending atleast £50 to upgrade the CLC unless i pick up a used block and chances are I could get issues with the other parts like the pump.

Whats putting me off.
the time needed to fit
maintenance over time.
Leak test and Chances of still leaking later leaks
Part costs, if i did not already have most of parts, i'm not sure if I would look into this.



Whats putting me off from a Air cooler is 2 things,
one is the size, I will need to check if it will fit the motherboard i have now and the one when i upgrade and it will not cover anything.
Two They always look like a huge metal block the ones that don't will not cool that well.

how much of a difference would i see between the D15 and the smaller u14.

You dont have a size comparison for the air coolers do you

I don't like the extremely cheap quality if CLCs and even the AIOs that are not CLC are not very well built compared to good custom loop components.

Performance of AIO/CLC is only marginally better if at all at same noise levels than top tier air cooling when case is setup and flowing air at or near room ambient into air coolers. CLCs until recently had much higher airflow fans making much more noise than typically used on air coolers and that increases cooling 6-10c, but put high airflow fans making same kinds of noise on top tier air coolers and we gain the same 6-10c .. of course case airflow has to be increased to match so air cooler continues to get air at or near room ambient.

Tell me what motherboard you have and what you are thinking of getting and I can probably tell you what the center CPU to near side of PCIe socket is. I also have data for RAM height.

Yes, they do look big on motherboard, but so do big graphics cards.
I guess it depends on what is important to you, safe, dependable and quiet with big block over motherboard .. or waterblock/pump combo with lots of extra hose snaking around over motherboard.

NH-U14S is within a couple degrees of D15, but both are 150mm / 75+mm center CPU toward PCIe socket.

Indeed, custom loops are expensive and require more maintenance. I think most users enjoy tinkering with their computers and water cooling systems. I enjoyed it for many many years, but finally had enough.

Here is link to many of the older coolers, but I haven't updated it in awhile so new ones are missing
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...e-best-air-cpu-cooler.18597870/#post-26264940

 

[2013]

Thanks for the reply.
Well Im assuming my custom loop is a good one but for cooling but I dont know any more.

Performance of AIO/CLC is only marginally better, is that for all water cooling or just AIO's ?

I have the Asus Sabertooth 990FX at the moment and I;m thinking of getting getting a Gigabyte x470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING for the upgrade.

Like you I have the Phanteks primo with fans in all available spaces, both the phanteks fans that came with it and nactua.

Graphics cards are big but don't seam as big due to the side view and don't over lap well not anymore.

I use to tinker with mine but I also reliesed, the risk involved. It has more cons then pros for me and I'm seeing more the longer compare the two.

I think main reason's I got the water cooling was
1. the fad,
2. the look of it
3. The expectation of it to be much cooler.
4. didn't really expect much issues.

Now
1. the fad has now moved on to hard tubing.
2. looks are still ok but not what it use to be.
3. if the temps on air coolers is similar then that's out the window.
4. I should have. The cost and risk are also big points for me now.

So I think it willl be air cooling, would you be able to help me choose a good one ?
I'm not too sure on which is good which is bad and so many coming out, also does it make much difference which paste you use.

Thanks

 

[orbitalwalsh]

Eisbaer LT 240 or Silent Loop 280 should do the trick . One is cheap and one is on sale . Luckily ryzen runs cooler, as mentioned , no toothpaste in sight !
Both made by Alphacool and have copper rads and 11/8 tubing and not thin brake hose pipes like in CLC units .
One is 25mm thick Vs 30mm .

Thermal grizzly paste !

 

[2013]

I was thinking maybe going for a air cooler this time, plus a few of the air coolers look to be better in the review.


Im not 100% sure what to get yet im looking at Noctua D15, U14s, u12s, Be Quite Dark Rock Pro 4, Cryorig R1, H5, thermalright if i can find one.

What I want in a air cooler
1. Something simple to install and uninstall.
2. Good Price Vs Performance
3. does not cover the ram or allow me to use most rams.

in air coolers I want to get something thats does not cover everything, I could you

I have still thought about keeping my custom water set up, I just cant tell if it would be cooler the other two option, without buying load of coolers how could i compare it ?

Do anyone know of any comparisons

 

[Ross Thomson]

can you not get an adapter for the fittings to let you use an AM4 block? would be a shame to waste the set up would it not.

An air cooler is cheaper than an AIO but cooling generally not as good and you will need to sort the air flow of your case.

My overclocked ryzen 1700 @ 3.9ghz with 1.325v hits around 40 when gaming and 55ish when rendering and that doesn't make any real noise (custom fan curve). I've got a crapy B350 board so I have active cooling on the VRM which you won't need with a high end x470 board. Either air or AIO you will get enough cooling for a ryzen chip.

 

[doyll]

Thanks for the reply.
Well Im assuming my custom loop is a good one but for cooling but I dont know any more.

Performance of AIO/CLC is only marginally better, is that for all water cooling or just AIO's ?

I have the Asus Sabertooth 990FX at the moment and I;m thinking of getting getting a Gigabyte x470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING for the upgrade.

Like you I have the Phanteks primo with fans in all available spaces, both the phanteks fans that came with it and nactua.

Graphics cards are big but don't seam as big due to the side view and don't over lap well not anymore.

I use to tinker with mine but I also reliesed, the risk involved. It has more cons then pros for me and I'm seeing more the longer compare the two.

I think main reason's I got the water cooling was
1. the fad,
2. the look of it
3. The expectation of it to be much cooler.
4. didn't really expect much issues.

Now
1. the fad has now moved on to hard tubing.
2. looks are still ok but not what it use to be.
3. if the temps on air coolers is similar then that's out the window.
4. I should have. The cost and risk are also big points for me now.

So I think it willl be air cooling, would you be able to help me choose a good one ?
I'm not too sure on which is good which is bad and so many coming out, also does it make much difference which paste you use.

Thanks

Asus Sabertooth 990FX has 6x PCIe with one nearest CPU missing so any of the big coolers will fit.
Gigabyte AMD X470 Aorus also has plenty of room.

Any cooler will fit as long as RAM is not too tall.

Enthoo Primo has 30mm more CPU clearance (207mm) than tallest cooler I know of and all kinds of airflow so no problems there.

Before suggesting coolers I'll tell you I always do a practice install on any cooler I'm not familiar with. It only takes a few minutes and usually saves lots of anger and frustration .. not to mention TIM ending up where it shouldn't be and/or a bad TIM print. I also use kitchen paper towel cut into 5cm squares and isopropl alcohol for cleaning. I wipe what I can get without problems onto a piece of towel and put it in the bin before the TIM can jump onto anything else. I swear there are TIM jumping gremlins.

Probably the best out are Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT and NH-D15. Le Grand Macho RT is ever so slightly better at cooling and noise levels. It will clear tall RAM in front of CPU, but not behind. Also a little harder to install mostly because it tips over backwards if not held in place and mounting crossbar is not fixed to base and can move. Best to have a 3rd hand to hold cooler in place while installing cross bar and tightening, but I do it all the time solo.

The best lower priced which is within 2-3c with one fan is TRUE Spirit 140 Power. It has 6x 8mm heatpipes. It is maybe 2c warmer with 1300rpm fan than D15, but D15 has 1500rpm fans, and that is worth at least 2c. |It clears RAM front and back of CPU

Cryorig R1 Ultimate and Universal are very good too, but I don't like their fan sound as well as TY-1xx series fan. The Universal clears all RAM and has base offset 5mm more back than Ultimate and also a 14mm thick front fan instad of normal 25-26mm front fan.

Noctua NH-D15 is good but usually more expensive than others. While cooler will clear tall RAM front fan still has to be set on the RAM so ends up looking too high.
D15S has offset base for better PCIe clearance.
NH-U14S is also good, but almost as big a TRUE Spirit 140 Power, costs more and doesn't cool any better than TS140P.

Phanteks PH-TC14PE is good too. The original had 2 piece soldered to heatpipes but they changed a year or so ago to 1 piece fins with no public announcement of change. Only way I found out was someone bought one and asked me if it was a counterfeit or real. I had to ask Phanteks rep who had to ask headquarters because he hadn't been told about change either. I tried to get one of the new ones to run comparison tests but Phanteks told me they cooled the same .. and I have seen no reviews that reviewer had newer one piece fin cooler, so no independent verification.

be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 and new Dark Rock Pro 4 are good and quiet, but not any better (2-3c warmer but very quiet) than others but look great.

The river website has Thermalright. Can't say any more because OcUK doesn't like us telling prices elsewhere.

 

[2013]

can you not get an adapter for the fittings to let you use an AM4 block? would be a shame to waste the set up would it not.

An air cooler is cheaper than an AIO but cooling generally not as good and you will need to sort the air flow of your case.

My overclocked ryzen 1700 @ 3.9ghz with 1.325v hits around 40 when gaming and 55ish when rendering and that doesn't make any real noise (custom fan curve). I've got a crapy B350 board so I have active cooling on the VRM which you won't need with a high end x470 board. Either air or AIO you will get enough cooling for a ryzen chip.

No ive had a look and it seam they no longer support it, the only options I have are
1. Buy a new water block, tubing ext and carry on using the custom loop.
2. Buy a good air cooler.
3. Buy a AIO and hope its good and lasts.

The custom hasa lot of issues which I would not mind as much if i knew i was getting much better cooling but each custom loop is different so you can compare.

 

[doyll]

What components do you have in your custom loop?

 

[2013]

What components do you have in your custom loop?

I have a custom water cooling set up (360 black ice GT Stealth rad, EK 4.0 pump and probya nickle 250 res, EK supreme original water block 1/4 compression fitting)


After taking a good look and the air coolers I think would be the best.
TRUE Spirit 140 Power
Pros - smaller, cools well, looks ok
Cons - lack of availability

Noctua NH-U14S
Pros - Smaller, cools well, Quite, good build.
Con - prices at the moment, fan colour

Noctua NH-D15
Pros - Best on the market, Quite, good build,
Cons - Its huge, Prices, colour

Cryorig R1 Ultimate
Pros - Looks good, cool as the D15, on offer.
Cons -Its huge, slight noise


The U14s and the spirit are in the running, they only 2-3c difference between them and the larger blocks, they should also give me more room.

I did think of the Phanteks PH-TC14PE but it looks a little bigger and ive not seen it in any of the newer review comparisons. so im not sure how it compares

Do you know if you can add dual fans to them and if it makes any difference.

 

[Ross Thomson]

No ive had a look and it seam they no longer support it, the only options I have are
1. Buy a new water block, tubing ext and carry on using the custom loop.
2. Buy a good air cooler.
3. Buy a AIO and hope its good and lasts.

The custom hasa lot of issues which I would not mind as much if i knew i was getting much better cooling but each custom loop is different so you can compare.

why would the AIO not last? an AIO is going to be about £100, decent air cooler £50-70 for the big ones. how much is the new bits for the loop going to cost?

 

[doyll]

I have a custom water cooling set up (360 black ice GT Stealth rad, EK 4.0 pump and probya nickle 250 res, EK supreme original water block 1/4 compression fitting)


After taking a good look and the air coolers I think would be the best.
TRUE Spirit 140 Power
Pros - smaller, cools well, looks ok
Cons - lack of availability

Noctua NH-U14S
Pros - Smaller, cools well, Quite, good build.
Con - prices at the moment, fan colour

Noctua NH-D15
Pros - Best on the market, Quite, good build,
Cons - Its huge, Prices, colour

Cryorig R1 Ultimate
Pros - Looks good, cool as the D15, on offer.
Cons -Its huge, slight noise


The U14s and the spirit are in the running, they only 2-3c difference between them and the larger blocks, they should also give me more room.

Do you know if you can add dual fans to them and if it makes any difference.

Yes, you can double up the fans on both TRUE Spirit 140 Power and NH-U14S. But it would be better to just get a higher speed fan. Adding 2nd fan is only worth a couple c lower temps. Changing to a higher airflow fan (and case fans to match so case supplies needed air to cooler) can give you 8-10c lower temps if you can stand the added noise of high performance fans.

Here is link to TRUE Spirit 140 Power using TY-143 fan/s compared to NH-D14 with same fans. NH-D14 performs the same as D15 when boht use same fans. TS140P is 2-3c cooler than D14 except at idle, and idle is not an issue anyway. http://www.overclock.net/forum/22111036-post22.html

 

[2013]

why would the AIO not last? an AIO is going to be about £100, decent air cooler £50-70 for the big ones. how much is the new bits for the loop going to cost?

AIO's are pre build fixed in so if something stops you cant change it, most are cheaply made, So if the pump stops working or coolant runs out thats it,

from the prices i've the block will cost about £40-£50,

 

[EsaT]

I did think of the Phanteks PH-TC14PE but it looks a little bigger and ive not seen it in any of the newer review comparisons. so im not sure how it compares

Do you know if you can add dual fans to them and if it makes any difference.

Tweaktown has reviews with best pics of installation:
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4453/phanteks_ph_tc14pe_cpu_cooler_review/index7.html

It's such old model that lots of coolers after that have been tested with newer platforms.
Though should be still near top level with that size.

You can look for reviews here:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviewdb/Cooling/Air/

 

[Ross Thomson]

AIO's are pre build fixed in so if something stops you cant change it, most are cheaply made, So if the pump stops working or coolant runs out thats it,

from the prices i've the block will cost about £40-£50,

just because they are sealed doesn't mean they won't last. if they fail with in the warranty period you get it sorted. my cryorig has a 5 year warranty.

 

[2013]

Yes, you can double up the fans on both TRUE Spirit 140 Power and NH-U14S. But it would be better to just get a higher speed fan. Adding 2nd fan is only worth a couple c lower temps. Changing to a higher airflow fan (and case fans to match so case supplies needed air to cooler) can give you 8-10c lower temps if you can stand the added noise of high performance fans.

Here is link to TRUE Spirit 140 Power using TY-143 fan/s compared to NH-D14 with same fans. NH-D14 performs the same as D15 when boht use same fans. TS140P is 2-3c cooler than D14 except at idle, and idle is not an issue anyway. http://www.overclock.net/forum/22111036-post22.html

So the real difference is just the fans ?

Also how do the PH-TC14PE and PH-TC14S compare ?

Tweaktown has reviews with best pics of installation:
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4453/phanteks_ph_tc14pe_cpu_cooler_review/index7.html

It's such old model that lots of coolers after that have been tested with newer platforms.
Though should be still near top level with that size.

You can look for reviews here:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviewdb/Cooling/Air/

Thanks

 

[2013]

just because they are sealed doesn't mean they won't last. if they fail with in the warranty period you get it sorted. my cryorig has a 5 year warranty.

That's a good warranty, the ones i has seen only had 1-2 years.
Maybe i should take another look