Air India Crash

UTmaniac said:
Silly question, but I take it that the plane computer knew the plane was about to fly directly to the UK and would prevent takeoff if the plane hadn't been refuelled sufficiently?
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It could be different on the 787 but I was under the impression Boeing airliner fuelling went like this:

Flight computer: "There is 9000 kgs of fuel on board".
Pilots: "Okay we need 27,000 total for our flight including safety margin, ground crew can we have 18,000 kgs of fuel please".
Ground crew: "Pilots, we have put 18,000 kgs of fuel in".
Pilots: "okay, flight computer 18,000 kgs of fuel has been added".
Flight computer: "There is 27,000 kgs of fuel on board".

There have actually been historical incidents of Boeing airliners running out of fuel mid flight before now due to the ground crew screwing up their math and putting in less than they were asked for, the pilots trusted them and told the flight computer it had received more than it had.
 
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Felon said:
Honestly in a 787 - those things are so highly automated, so many checks and so much automation built into all of the systems - with most of the stuff being pre-calculated, I'd find it absolutely insane if it does turn out to be pilot error.

My gut feeling is going with some sort of catastrophic failure relating to either the engines, (software controlling the engines), avionics or maybe hydraulics.
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Contaminated fuel ?
 
Also, where would the contamination have occurred considering all the other aircraft being fuelled?
 
UTmaniac said:
Silly question, but I take it that the plane computer knew the plane was about to fly directly to the UK and would prevent takeoff if the plane hadn't been refuelled sufficiently?
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It gives warnings. It won't stop you taking off.

747 FMC.

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ubersonic said:
It could be different on the 787 but I was under the impression Boeing airliner fuelling went like this:

Flight computer: "There is 11,000 kgs of fuel on board".
Pilots: "Okay we need 27,000 total for our flight including safety margin, ground crew can we have 18,000 kgs of fuel please".
Ground crew: "Pilots, we have put 18,000 kgs of fuel in".
Pilots: "okay, flight computer 18,000 kgs of fuel has been added".
Flight computer: "There is 27,000 kgs of fuel on board".

There have actually been historical incidents of Boeing airliners running out of fuel mid flight before now due to the ground crew screwing up their math and putting in less than they were asked for, the pilots trusted them and told the flight computer it had received more than it had.
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The aircraft knows how much it has on board - all the gauges are digital based on direct readings from the tank.

Also, all refuels have a discrepancy check carried out, comparing the metered fuel the bowser has delivered against what the aircraft says it’s taken on board. One is in volume, the other is in weight, and the calculation uses the specific mavity of the fuel for the day. The figures should be with a few percent of each other.
 
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Nitefly said:
I’m not sure what is more curious: the details of what happened, or that so many people seem to be plane experts :p
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It's sort of like how immediately after HBO released their dramatization of the Chernobyl disaster the forum was awash with experts in void coefficients and RBMK reactor design, all of who seemed to be under the shared misconception that Dyatlov was a villain and Legasov didn't aid in the cover up.

Or how as soon as the pandemic started the forum was awash with experts on how airborne viruses, RDNA vaccines and Chinese laboratories all work.

Still, it's far better than Facebook right now.
 
ubersonic said:
It could be different on the 787 but I was under the impression Boeing airliner fuelling went like this:

Flight computer: "There is 11,000 kgs of fuel on board".
Pilots: "Okay we need 27,000 total for our flight including safety margin, ground crew can we have 18,000 kgs of fuel please".
Ground crew: "Pilots, we have put 18,000 kgs of fuel in".
Pilots: "okay, flight computer 18,000 kgs of fuel has been added".
Flight computer: "There is 27,000 kgs of fuel on board".

There have actually been historical incidents of Boeing airliners running out of fuel mid flight before now due to the ground crew screwing up their math and putting in less than they were asked for, the pilots trusted them and told the flight computer it had received more than it had.
Click to expand...

Also, 11+18=29…
 
I'm just about to watch mentor pilots (good guy and pilot if he's still doing it)

trainer) that explains things well. He's posted an early but not speculating take on it. He has another Boeing pilot in the video .
 
There's probably some obscure variable in Boeing's code where fuel weight is in lbs.

Edit: Either that or they're all in lbs and one doesn't get converted to kg.
 
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Grim5 said:
there is this tweet of a passenger from this plane who was on earlier flight the same day and he claims when he flew out there was a lot of electronic issues on board like lights coming on and off or refusing to turn on, screens not working etc

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This guy's account appears to be corroborated by the sole survivor. In an interview the survivor said during take off the lights inside the plane were flashing on and off

Additionally in one of the videos I've come across that has better audio you can hear what appears to be the sound of a RAT as the plane passes by (Ram Air Turbine), its a little propeller that pops out of the plane and spins connected to a turbine to try and generate electricity to run the plane's system in case of failure
 
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Two more screenshots from Aerowinx precision simulator, set up for a for a ten hour flight.

Again, this is a 744 but the principles can all be carried over to the Dreamliner (except the number of engines ;))

The FMC is all programmed correctly but I've not extended the flaps. As the speed increases, you see a config flaps error. No announcements.

hUps67D.png


I then hit TOGA, and rotated at V1.

Immediately at takeoff, the aircraft was pretty much in stall and there was no way the aircraft could build speed quickly enough to get above stall speed, even though I manually firewalled the thrust levers. I started gear retraction to reduce some drag but there wasn't enough time. I'm getting Pull up announcements and PULL UP is shown on the ND but the aircraft is dropping even though the nose is up. Only one thing will happen here.

The flight profile looks pretty much identical to the Air India one.

r7d6fFP.png
 
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