Alder Lake-S leaks

Joxeon · 14 Sep 2021 at 16:09

humbug said:
here is the chart.

5900X @ 4Ghz vs 5900X 3D Prototype @4Ghz

A lot of these games AMD is testing are quite old now so I'd expect the 15% average to be best case scenario and doubt we will see those sort of gains when the reviewers test a wider spread and especially on newer titles.

LePhuronn · 14 Sep 2021 at 16:11

Joxeon said:
A lot of these games AMD is testing are quite old now so I'd expect the 15% average to be best case scenario and doubt we will see those sort of gains when the reviewers test a wider spread and especially on newer titles.

How so? L3 cache helps multiple cores talk to each other in a timely fashion, so as games become more multi-threaded, surely the cache available will actually boost things. Old, single-thread games won't see the benefits of all that L3 cache because they don't need it.

Joxeon · 14 Sep 2021 at 16:14

LePhuronn said:
How so? L3 cache helps multiple cores talk to each other, so as games become more multi-threaded, surely the cache available will actually help.

Older games are further away from being GPU bound at 1080p so will widen any CPU test results.

pcuser · 14 Sep 2021 at 16:42

humbug said:
"Average" 15%, up to was 25% according to their charts.

AMD's recent history with claims.

Zen 1 over Excavator: Claim +40% Reality +52%
Zen 1+ over Zen 1: Claim +10% Reality +10%
Zen 2 over Zen 1+: Claim +20% Reality +20%
Zen 3 over Zen 2: Claim +20% Reality up to +50%

I may have interpreted it that way in my mind I take my words back then. Let's hope that they will exceed their promises again this time.

LePhuronn said:
It wasn't "up to", it was explicitly presented as "average".
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-dem...rototype-with-3d-v-cache-stack-chiplet-design

Yes, all rumours should be taken with a grain of salt, but like I said earlier, the 20% IPC uplift was talked about before 3D stacked cache was an actual thing. I sincerely doubt AMD would even bother bringing stacked cache to desktop Zen 3 if its performance boost subsumes Zen 4's architectural improvements.

Specific numbers aside, I think it's fairly safe to say that whatever Zen 4's uplift is, it will be measured against 3D stacked Zen 3, not vanilla Zen 3.

Again I take my word back for the 15 percent. Memory got it wrong there. Looking forward to see what reality will be.

humbug · 14 Sep 2021 at 17:10

Joxeon said:
A lot of these games AMD is testing are quite old now so I'd expect the 15% average to be best case scenario and doubt we will see those sort of gains when the reviewers test a wider spread and especially on newer titles.

If reviewers test with 90%+ GPU load it will be 0%

That doesn't make it 0%

Joxeon · 14 Sep 2021 at 17:15

humbug said:
If reviewers test with 90%+ GPU load it will be 0%

That doesn't make it 0%

It does for the majority of people in a realistic scenario.

Reviews will test some newer games like cyberpunk/AC Valhalla and some older games like CSGO so will end up with a lower average than 15% unless of course AMD has found ways to make further improvements since the prototype.

KompuKare · 14 Sep 2021 at 17:25

Joxeon said:
It does for the majority of people in a realistic scenario.

Reviews will test some newer games like cyberpunk/AC Valhalla and some older games like CSGO so will end up with a lower average than 15% unless of course AMD has found ways to make further improvements since the prototype.

But surely unless benching at 480P, they only numbers gamers should pay attention to is min FPS as average is a pretty useless metric.

Anyway, I want a Zen with 3D cache to get into 7zip world league table, not for gaming!

humbug · 14 Sep 2021 at 17:25

Joxeon said:
It does for the majority of people in a realistic scenario.

Reviews will test some newer games like cyberpunk/AC Valhalla and some older games like CSGO so will end up with a lower average than 15% unless of course AMD has found ways to make further improvements since the prototype.

That's not what i said.

jigger · 14 Sep 2021 at 21:36

Zarax said:
Wake me up when Apple will start making $500 laptops, until them Chromebooks are a more serious threat to Windows than anything made by Apple.
Even Cupertino's coffers cannot afford to subsidize the porting of enough games to make a difference.

A chip with that level of CPU and graphics performance at 30 watts isn’t going to be cheap.

cliffy · 14 Sep 2021 at 23:11

Zarax said:
Wake me up when Apple will start making $500 laptops, until them Chromebooks are a more serious threat to Windows than anything made by Apple.
Even Cupertino's coffers cannot afford to subsidize the porting of enough games to make a difference.

Now Apple are using there own silicon they could certainly drop the prices if they want. With Apples cash reserves they could do whatever they like including buying game companies

Grim5 · 14 Sep 2021 at 23:14

Joxeon said:
A lot of these games AMD is testing are quite old now so I'd expect the 15% average to be best case scenario and doubt we will see those sort of gains when the reviewers test a wider spread and especially on newer titles.

A lot of them are competitive online games - these games get the biggest benefit at 1080p from removing cpu bottlenecks - like csgo which gained 40% performance from zen 2 to zen 3.

So while extra cache directly impacts things such as code compiling it's an indirect benefit for games - rather than directly impacting IPC, the extra cache will improve latency and communication speed and thus reducing the cpu bottleneck which exists at 1080p.

As mentioned Extra cache may become more important in time to come as it alleviates inter core latency for multithreaded games. But these gains are mainly benefit CPU bottlenecked scenarios so 4k gamers as myself would see little benefit for the time being

Zarax · 15 Sep 2021 at 05:30

cliffy said:
Now Apple are using there own silicon they could certainly drop the prices if they want. With Apples cash reserves they could do whatever they like including buying game companies

Except Apple is interested in being a luxury brand and is extremely unlikely to release low price devices. If I had to wager a bet, I'd say you're going to see them sooner from Samsung or Xiaomi than Apple.
Meanwhile, competition is not standing still and Windows on Snapdragon might become more relevant with Windows 11.

scubes · 15 Sep 2021 at 09:21

I'd buy a mobo that support both ...

jigger · 15 Sep 2021 at 12:42

It’s confusing all the motherboards are branded as Z690.

cliffy · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:03

Zarax said:
Except Apple is interested in being a luxury brand and is extremely unlikely to release low price devices. If I had to wager a bet, I'd say you're going to see them sooner from Samsung or Xiaomi than Apple.
Meanwhile, competition is not standing still and Windows on Snapdragon might become more relevant with Windows 11.

This is not entirely true. Ipad £329, Iphone SE, Apple Watch Se. They are clearly showing signs of targeting lower price points

THX1138 · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:06

It is always better to wait for a year or two when new memory comes outs and for the motherboards also.

LePhuronn · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:42

scubes said:
I'd buy a mobo that support both ...

There won't be one, unless Asrock defy Intel's directive.

scubes · 15 Sep 2021 at 14:52

A well have to start saving lol .

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 15 Sep 2021 at 19:13

If this cannot beat Zen3 using DDR4,then I am uncertain with the costs of DDR5,the platform makes much sense!

Ice Tea · 16 Sep 2021 at 08:14

Intel LGA1700 socket '15R1' pictured

https://hexus.net/tech/news/mainboard/148379-intel-lga1700-socket-15r1-pictured

Intel's new rectangular chip/socket means we might see a bit of a shake-up in the cooler market. It is rumoured to be reengineering a line of reference/stock coolers to be ready for the release of ADL-S mainstream CPUs. We have also seen some of the bigger names in cooling assure users that existing models will be compatible, and will have new fixing kits made available for a fee or free – if necessary.