Alfie Evans...

[Minstadave]

I've heard this nonsense reply twice now to Strife, I can't see where he said that Alfie, is his parents property? He's talking about their wishes as his guardians. Alas parents wishes are ignored if it doesn't fall in line rightly or wrongly.

If parents beat their kids they’ll lose their guardianship, same applies in this situation. You are not allowed to cause serious suffering to your own child.

The threshold is high but these parents have crossed it.

 

[BigDannyO]

I've heard this nonsense reply twice now to Strife, I can't see where he said that Alfie, is his parents property? He's talking about their wishes as his guardians. Alas parents wishes are ignored if it doesn't fall in line rightly or wrongly.

I may be wrong but I don't they are his legal guardians, I think he was represented in court by CAFCASS at least.

 

[Tosno]

If parents beat their kids they’ll lose their guardianship, same applies in this situation. You are not allowed to cause serious suffering to your own child.

The threshold is high but these parents have crossed it.

As far as we know they are not beating Alfie and
if in this case, Alfie's parents had said that their baby be removed from hospital without being able to offer any assurances as to his future care, then it would have been right to overrule them.

But that wasn't what happened. They are clearly loving parents. Bambino G is a respectable hospital and has offered to try to treat Alfie. They are not trying to take him to the Congo to get rid of his demons as one poster here quipped.

 

[ubersonic]

A child is not the parents property. Never has been and never will be.

Indeed, the hospital and the courts have to put the child's best interest ahead of the parents wishes, like they have done.

 

[Hotwired]

Bambino G is a respectable hospital and has offered to try to treat Alfie.

I'm not sure you understand his state. He has no brain activity. Not sleeping, not in a coma.

There is a body and no one is home. No one will ever be home in future.

It doesn't matter that his issue has no specific name (due to rarity) because the brain damage is so massive there is no recovery.

In simple terms, the vast majority of white matter in Alfie’s brain has been wiped out.

Doctors say Alfie has suffered significant brain damage because of a progressive, degenerative condition that has left his brain mostly as water and spinal fluid.

... “destructive” changes have destroyed the pathways which regulate the vital “control structure” in the brain - responsible for processing any information, from touch to sound to taste to smell.

Experts say it has also affected the area responsible for being awake and responsive.

The most recent scan referred to in court showed that only around 30% of the white matter, “or perhaps less”, remained in Alfie’s brain.

An epilepsy expert said [more recent] EEGs showed there was now “nothing happening” in terms of Alfie’s brainwaves between seizures.

She said this showed the cortex of his brain was not functioning other than to produce seizures.

The cortex is behind many of our key bodily functions, including thinking and awareness.

Doctors who gave evidence during the court case said Alfie’s brain had continued to deteriorate and his underlying neurological, degenerative disease had progressed.

They said they did not believe there was any chance of recovery.

Alfie’s dad Tom has questioned whether nerve cells in his brain could recover if the destructive process slows down.

But experts told the court case brain tissue cannot regenerate and once nerve cells are destroyed, they are gone.

Alder Hey witness Dr A said in his opinion the areas of Alfie’s brain showing some function will stop functioning and will not improve.

And this is what encourages thinking that there's someone there, reactions:

Alfie’s family see videos of him appearing to respond to touch as vital evidence that his life support must not be removed.

Experts called by Alder Hey say these are “reflex” movements in response to stimulation.

One, who can be referred to only as Dr A, said these involuntary responses were generated by brain stem tissue and can happen any time as an “auto-pilot response”.

Source: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/new...0.1300256286.1524581959-2117500552.1524581958

Any treatment anyone anywhere can offer is to keep his body alive for the benefit of the parents at least until they accept the situation or the brain damage finally kills the body.

That is extremely bad medicine as it is not for the benefit of the patient and doctors here want nothing to do with that.

The court agrees there is nothing to gain for the patient with any treatment and will not allow this to by bypassed.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

I'm not sure you understand his state. He has no brain activity. Not sleeping, not in a coma.

There is a body and no one is home. No one will ever be home in future.

People like this dont want to understand the situation. I heard on the radio this morning from protesters and supporters and it was basically a case of not caring what the Doctors say because based on some completely unrelated logic (ie he breathes, or he winked etc etc) they somehow have interpreted that as actual brain activity and then ignored again when the Drs say its impossible for the brain to regenerate and that this is just a operating function of the body.

The kid died a long time ago and thats sad, but keeping the body around is helping no-one NOT even the parents who actually need to reflect and grieve properly for their dead son.

Its crazy because if someone is in an accident and gets brain damage its exceptionally rare for someone to challenge it and somehow think they are going to get better. The brain just doesn't work like that...and most sensible people figured that out years ago.

 

[fatiain]

One of the scummy-mummies on one of the chav-infested, local selling pages on FaceAche are organising a "March for Alfie", someone tried to point out the pointlessness of the whole media-frenzy inflamed situation and got massively abused.

 

[dcsarge]

I bet not one of that mob have actually had to stop and consider the outcome of their actions. I wouldn't wish that situation on anyone but I suspect if they had the to make the choice for their own loved one, in a closed room with clear medical fact, they might not be so quick to join the protest.

 

[fatiain]

Facebook medical degrees, sponsored by Rent-a-mob.

 

[Minstadave]

Bambino G is a respectable hospital and has offered to try to treat Alfie. They are not trying to take him to the Congo to get rid of his demons as one poster here quipped.

Bambino G are not offering any treatment. They are offering to provide extended palliative care inappropriately against our ethical and legal standards in the uk.

Bambino G is far from the pinnacle of excellence in healthcare and it’s associations with the Vatican have made it become further so.

The parents are not beating him, that’s not what I was saying, they are failing to protect him from harm. Numerous children in the UK are removed from their families for this reason. The harm in this case is a long protracted death with multiple intubations, venepuncture, infections, bed sores etc.

 

[Tefal]

As far as we know they are not beating Alfie and
if in this case, Alfie's parents had said that their baby be removed from hospital without being able to offer any assurances as to his future care, then it would have been right to overrule them.

But that wasn't what happened. They are clearly loving parents. Bambino G is a respectable hospital and has offered to try to treat Alfie. They are not trying to take him to the Congo to get rid of his demons as one poster here quipped.

They aren't going to treat him though.

They'er going to put him on a ventilator and leave him in a room to rot for however many years it takes the rest for him to die.

 

[neviditelny]

I wonder how people can be so disillusioned (ignorance or just refusal?) over Alfie's actual condition and general state. The amount of posts I've seen on Facebook about "being offered hope" and yada yada and therefor let him be transfered etc makes me wonder how many people are illiterate or just plain stupid..

 

[Maundie]

It mentioned on the news this morning that his father is now looking to sue a couple of Drs for conspiracy to murder

 

[Minusorange]

I wonder how people can be so disillusioned (ignorance or just refusal?) over Alfie's actual condition and general state. The amount of posts I've seen on Facebook about "being offered hope" and yada yada and therefor let him be transfered etc makes me wonder how many people are illiterate or just plain stupid..

IQ tests aren't accepted measurements of intelligence because they generally show the majority of humans to be idiots

Things like this only confirm those findings

 

[neviditelny]

It mentioned on the news this morning that his father is now looking to sue a couple of Drs for conspiracy to murder

Didn't the father file some papers about that in court earlier in the week? I'm sure I read something about that but think it was refused..

 

[G18241]

I am very sorry to hear this, I can only imagine what it's like to need to use Bluebell Wood's services. However, I'm glad they have been able to help you and your family. I'm not sure how funding works for these places or whether there are other similar centres around the country, but they seem to do amazing, if terribly sad work.

They are only 10% government funded which is horrendous since my daughter passed we have managed to raise just short of £13k...hoping to break the 13k mark with a 5k run i am trianing for.

I don't know how the people work there do it, how you can't make connections with the children there and become emotionally involved is beyond me

In regards to him "reacting"...my daughter would also react to touch...she was very heavily sedated to try and keep the seisures she was having under control, but if we were to kiss her cheek, it would look as though she was smiling. She would occasionally open her eyes but you could tell there was nothing there.

It's OK saying you would do anything for your child, but if you have never been in that situation it's impossible to say what you would do. Doing ANYTHING for your child in that situation is more to do with your wants and needs, rather than the suffering and quality of life your child MAY have.

 

[TheVoice]

They aren't going to treat him though.

They'er going to put him on a ventilator and leave him in a room to rot for however many years it takes the rest for him to die.

It truly is staggering how, even with all the media attention this case has received and all the information out there, people are still of the utterly uninformed opinion that Alder Hey and the courts are denying this kid one last chance at life-saving treatment.

 

[AHarvey]

It's OK saying you would do anything for your child, but if you have never been in that situation it's impossible to say what you would do. Doing ANYTHING for your child in that situation is more to do with your wants and needs, rather than the suffering and quality of life your child MAY have.

My wife had the same discussion 2 nights ago.. "how can anyone take him away from his parents?!" etc

I was along the lines of "the parents are idiots, they should be spending every day with him until he inevitably dies instead of messing around with court cases or going to Rome! He's been taken out of their care because they are harming him!"

My wife is very emotional, I'm analytical so we often disagree over my views of things.

 

[G18241]

My wife had the same discussion 2 nights ago.. "how can anyone take him away from his parents?!" etc

I was along the lines of "the parents are idiots, they should be spending every day with him until he inevitably dies instead of messing around with court cases or going to Rome! He's been taken out of their care because they are harming him!"

My wife is very emotional, I'm analytical so we often disagree over my views of things.

I'm exactly the same as you, from us going into the hospital to her passing (which was only over the course of 5 days) i was probably out the room she was in for maybe 2 hours a day for some fresh air / toilet trips / food...i would have NEVER wanted to be away from her for anything that was not for my own sanity / essential needs

 

[AHarvey]

I'm exactly the same as you, from us going into the hospital to her passing (which was only over the course of 5 days) i was probably out the room she was in for maybe 2 hours a day for some fresh air / toilet trips / food...i would have NEVER wanted to be away from her for anything that was not for my own sanity / essential needs

Exactly, in 10 years when they look back they are going to kick themselves for wasting so much of his time over this. I understand why, but ultimately, they'll hate themselves for it.