All guitarists, budding guitarists and wannabe guitarists in here please

Andelusion said:
I definately think you should double the Eminor pent an octave higher as a hell of a lot of people will be using it up the octave rather than in the open position imo.
Click to expand...

I disagree, "copying" it up higher is the same as playing the pattern in a different postion..... the focus should be on teaching the "pattern" not where on the octave it's played.... and many people use it on the bottom octave too so I think I will just say that I don't think this should be done... imho!
 
Docaroo said:
I disagree, "copying" it up higher is the same as playing the pattern in a different postion..... the focus should be on teaching the "pattern" not where on the octave it's played.... and many people use it on the bottom octave too so I think I will just say that I don't think this should be done... imho!
Click to expand...

Teaching E minor pentatonic in the open position is great, but since the whole point of this diagram seems to be to simplify things to the millionth degree, I personally believe that a shape such as the minor pentatonic should be displayed in a fretted position, if a guitarist is using this diagram to learn their scales, then it's unlikely they'll have the knowledge to (confidently) transpose a scale position utilising open strings, to a position on the fretboard using fretted notes.

I'm not denying the fact that there are many licks/riffs which utilise E minor pentatonic in it's open position, it's just there's technically 11 more keys in which you could use the fretted position, which is why I think it should be included, imo! :)

collisster said:
I've never been able to work out scales from those diagrams. a little help needed :s
Click to expand...

These diagrams help to teach scales are shapes, rather than actual notes, or intervals, or scale degrees etc. They're particularly useful for seeing how different positions for the same scale can link together across the fretboard, ultimately increasing a player's knowledge of how to play in key in more than one position.

Can you see how each individual shape refers to a section of the guitar neck? I personally use these shapes in combination with the scale degrees and/or scale formulas from their relevant keys, as on they're own their useful, but you can miss out on a lot of important stuff without reverting back to the actual notes being used.
 
Last edited:
This is really great guys :) glad I've got some discussion going.

Anderlusion, do you think I should start it on the 12th then and do the higher part of the neck (full octave higher or am I confused?) or can I get away with fretting it else where and just mention which key it's in?

Cheers

Just realised I need to include the root notes as well!

Panzer
 
I thought it was going to be 3D :p

The idea in principle is great, but im not sure that example is that good.

The thickness of strings is a clear example of it being a good idea...

but the rest isnt really much different and will probably be as hard to read for a beginner than anything else.
 
Panzerbjorn said:
Anderlusion, do you think I should start it on the 12th then and do the higher part of the neck (full octave higher or am I confused?) or can I get away with fretting it else where and just mention which key it's in?
Click to expand...

I think you should begin the scales from G Major pentatonic. That's personally the key in which I write out the pentatonics for my studes, as it's the lowest place on the neck where you can comfortably play 2 octaves of the scale without including open strings, or a silly key which is unreasonable for beginners to get their head around (such as F# Major).

So you'll end up with G Maj Pent, A, B, D and E minor pent (12th fret) written out.

I'd put open voicings in an appendix or something.

My reasoning was just that it's much more useful in my opinion to include the fretted version of Eminor penatonic, as once the shape is learnt it can be transposed around the neck, the open voicing can also be moved if the student knows that an open string is the same note as the same string at the 12th fret - but this method then also means they have to first transpose the shape to a fretted position (with no open strings) and then begin the task of experimenting and moving the shape around.
 
Cool cheers for clearing that up, I kinda guessed what you meant, just wanted to be certain. I think I first learnt G Major pent as well then adapted it to the Em so it does make sense :)

I'll have to work out a way of fitting more frets onto a single A4 page :o

I've got an interim crit on Tuesday at uni so I'll make all the updates for that, and then post again either Monday evening when they are done, or on Tuesday after the crit with feedback from the group and tutors.

Cheers again :)

Panzer
 
Andelusion said:
My reasoning was just that it's much more useful in my opinion to include the fretted version of Eminor penatonic, as once the shape is learnt it can be transposed around the neck, the open voicing can also be moved if the student knows that an open string is the same note as the same string at the 12th fret - but this method then also means they have to first transpose the shape to a fretted position (with no open strings) and then begin the task of experimenting and moving the shape around.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong sir, I totally understand this part of the reasoning and agree with you hear... I'm just not sure that starting it up the octave is the best idea....

I agree learning in G would be better as you can "fret" the shapes at the bottom of the guitar... it's best to let beginners get to grips with the bottom of the fret board before going away up hehe....

My reasoning is that playing an open string is really easy, and the best way to start for an absolute beginner so they only have to worry about fretting one note!
 
Docaroo said:
Don't get me wrong sir, I totally understand this part of the reasoning and agree with you hear... I'm just not sure that starting it up the octave is the best idea....

I agree learning in G would be better as you can "fret" the shapes at the bottom of the guitar... it's best to let beginners get to grips with the bottom of the fret board before going away up hehe....

My reasoning is that playing an open string is really easy, and the best way to start for an absolute beginner so they only have to worry about fretting one note!
Click to expand...

Hmm I'm getting worried now, do you think I'm suggesting he writes out the shapes up the top of the neck E.g writing out G Major Pent starting at the 15th fret!?

This isn't what I mean :D Edit: or maybe I'm confused also? Who cares, um, guitar is great :D /edit

And yeah I totally agree about including the open positions, (the rock school Grade 1 book only teaches A minor and E minor pent in their open positions) I just think as a good reference for pentatonic shapes that will be most useful in all playing situations, having E minor in it's fretted position would be better. I mean; include them both for all means :D
 
Last edited:
Andelusion said:
Hmm I'm getting worried now, do you think I'm suggesting he writes out the shapes up the top of the neck E.g writing out G Major Pent starting at the 15th fret!?
Click to expand...

no sorry I was just referring to the E penta!! not all the other shapes!!
 
I really love the staggered layout now that the frets allign this way, I was about to suggest that but then decided to read the entire thread :)

I don't know if this is just me being a little odd but it would read a little more naturally to me if the first phrase was actually at the bottom of the page, almost as if you play up the page rather than down. I think that this probably comes from having had no music lessons and never using a music stand, it would just feel more natural for me because I'm used to reading from a book lying on a floor/bed/desk etc.

Having read through this thread, I already feel like a better player :)
 
Hi Sweetloaf, thanks for the input! You may be on to something there actually.

It would fit in with the notes going from low to high as well, and it would fit in with the bass notes being at the bottom of the diagram to replicate the way you look at the neck while holding the guitar in a playing position.

I suppose the only problem with it is that we're taught to read from top to bottom, so it might confuse the beginner. Might confuse the non-beginners too.

What does everyone else think about this?

Cheers

Panzer
 
Panzerbjorn said:
I suppose the only problem with it is that we're taught to read from top to bottom, so it might confuse the beginner. Might confuse the non-beginners too.
Click to expand...

edit-post deleted!!

Ignore this for now..thinking again :D
 
Last edited:
Panzerbjorn said:
I suppose the only problem with it is that we're taught to read from top to bottom, so it might confuse the beginner. Might confuse the non-beginners too.

What does everyone else think about this?
Click to expand...

that's a big no-no from me Panzer! That would be FAR too confusing.... I mean by LOTS.... music is top to bottom, writing is top to bottom... keep it that way :)
 
Docaroo said:
music is top to bottom, writing is top to bottom...
Click to expand...

And the lines on a page of writing go down the page, however the string go up?

Mirror image as I said would probably work best for me but we all have our preferences :)
 
Right guys, just thought I would give you an update.

I had the final critique for this project yesterday and it went down well with staff and students alike. Just thought I would post my final scale and chord diagrams because I have until Friday to finish the folder work and make any changes that were suggested in the crit or anything that I feel could do with changing before the final deadline.

If you have any more comments on these two then please let me know.

finalchords.jpg


finalscales.jpg


Not sure why the colours have gone all funny :confused: but you get the idea.

I have managed to confuse myself with that scale diagram in that I don't know what to name it:

I started of with the Em pentatonic but then moved the root note to G. So is this now Em pentatonic in the key of G or is it just G pentatonic?

Cheers

Panzer
 
Last edited:
Quite right good sir!

The original pages are 297mm square and these are scaled down. The sharps are quite small in the full print outs so it's no surprise that they are hard to see when scaled down to 800px on the long side but I promise that it's there :)

Panzer
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom