Alternatives - Skype? ZOOM? Discord? TeamSpeak?

[stockhausen]

I have been asked to give people advice on using Skype. Ppersonally I haven't used it for years and assumed that it wasn't around any longer so out of curiosity I had a look on Wikipedia . . . I was somewhat stunned to read:

On 10 November 2014, Skype scored 1 out of 7 points on the Electronic Frontier Foundation's secure messaging scorecard. Skype received a point for encryption during transit but lost points because communications are not encrypted with a key the provider doesn't have access to (i.e. the communications are not end-to-end encrypted), users can't verify contacts' identities, past messages are not secure if the encryption keys are stolen (i.e. the service does not provide forward secrecy), the code is not open to independent review (i.e. the code is not open-source), the security design is not properly documented, and there has not been a recent independent security audit.
. . .
As of August 2018, Skype now supports end-to-end encryption across all platforms.

No wonder it now has a significantly lower profile than it once had.

Now, as it happens I don't think that snooping by GCHQ, the NSA or Mossad is likely to be an issue for the elderly people who want to keep in touch and who have asked me about it but I do wonder what alternatives are available under Windows on a PC?


edited: Just to clarify, I am ONLY interested in software that will run on Windows devices (typically a laptop with built-in microphone, speakers and camera); I am not interested in anything that will ONLY run on a SmartPhone, least of all, that will ONLY run on Apple products
a l s o . . .
After various helpful posts here, I have tested out Skype and ZOOM and am happy to recommend and install ZOOM

 

[stockhausen]

. . . Microsoft purchase of Skype
. . .
Skype is fine. It's still Skype, but it's fine.

I have been advised by a Corporate Communications Manager to use ZOOM. I have never heard of it before and get the impression that it may not be ideal for "personal" use but I will have a look at it.

As to Skype and Microsoft, the very involvement of Microsoft seems to be one good reason to avoid it - I remember back in the day when Microsoft acquired Hotmail. But thanks for the endorsement anyhow

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
Skype is free, allows you to purchase some credits and dial phone numbers, and is, relatively easy to use. It's also available on nigh on every platform and free from Skype to Skype. If you want team chats then there is Discord. All are available on the web and free. Zoom, and this is going back a little bit, was aimed more at the corporate side and was relatively pricey. They're not really comparable products.
. . .

Thanks for that, good input to work on.

As I said, ZOOM was recommended by the Communications Manager from a large multinational and may be OTT.

 

[stockhausen]

Right, let me help here. Zoom, which like that U2 album for iTunes, was forced onto desktops across the globe because of its vulnerability exploit triggers, (which are listed worse than some of the worst trojans). It operates from a directory which opens up further vulnerabilities for viruses to run and is also susceptible to "prying eye". Unless you really have no other option like Skype for Business or Teams, then avoid, or ensure your AV measures and AppLocker policies are beyond reproach.

I'm not sure that you have actually helped there Reinhardt
However, based on your comment I checked ZOOM security on Wikipedia:

In November 2018, a security vulnerability (CVE-2018-15715) was discovered that allowed a remote unauthenticated attacker to spoof UDP messages from a meeting attendee or Zoom server in order to invoke functionality in the target client. This would allow the attacker to remove attendees from meetings, spoof messages from users, or hijack shared screens.

In July 2019, security researcher Jonathan Leitschuh disclosed a zero-day vulnerability allowing any website to forcibly join a macOS user to a Zoom call, with their video camera activated, without the user's permission. In addition, attempts to uninstall the Zoom client on macOS would prompt the software to re-install automatically in the background, using a hidden web server that was set up on the machine during the first installation and remained active even after attempting to remove the client. After receiving public criticism, Zoom updated their software to remove the vulnerability and the hidden webserver, allowing complete uninstallation.

Maybe you could "correct" the Wikipedia entry?

 

[stockhausen]

Zoom, the video-conferencing app that has seen a huge rise in downloads since quarantines were imposed around the world, is now being used by millions for work and social gatherings.

This week Prime Minister Boris Johnson tweeted a picture of himself chairing a Cabinet meeting via the app. This led to questions about how secure it was for government meetings. Zoom has angrily defended its security record, saying it would answer any questions the government had.

First came a tweet from the prime minister. It was closely followed by reports that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) was suspending use of the app, something it strenuously denied. The MoD told the BBC that Zoom had never been used for high-security meetings, but continued to be a tool for cross-government chats. Later, a Cabinet Office spokesperson moved to clarify the government's position: "In the current unprecedented circumstances the need for effective channels of communication is vital. National Cyber Security Centre guidance shows there is no security reason for Zoom not to be used for conversations below a certain classification."

But Zoom was clearly angered by suggestions that it was not entirely secure. "Zoom takes user security extremely seriously" it told the BBC. (LINK)

Still, it is probably secure enough for discussing the health of the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Health

 

[stockhausen]

For personal use just use WhatsApp voice calls. It's free, simple, end-to-end encrypted for the paranoid and you can do group voice/video chat too.

All you need is a mobile.

As you say, WhatsApp is OK "for personal use"; I don't know that it can be used for a "group" chat, can it?

I believe that it is also available to run on a PC but have never tried it in that way.

Incidentally, one minor correction - I believe that WhatsApp requires more than just a basic mobile 'phone; you would be amazed at how many OAPs use a laptop and prefer a small, light mobile 'phone rather than a (relatively) massive Smartphone which needs recharging every night.


On further research, both Skype and ZOOM seem fine - I can't say that I now have a preference . . . probably prefer ZOOM

 

[stockhausen]

FaceTime allows up to 32 different iThings to take part in a group video call.
. . .

Yup, Apple products only.

Perhaps, I should have made my original post clearer, I was ONLY interested in software that would run on Windows devices (typically a laptop with built-in microphone, speakers and camera)

 

[stockhausen]

Yep, and confirmed it's not end to end encrypted. Hopefully @stockhausen will take note

Yup, thanks for that; I will probably continue with ZOOM, it seems a superior product and I expect that the security bug will soon be fixed

A security researcher named Jonathan Leitschuh published a blog post yesterday that lays out a newly-discovered vulnerability in the Mac desktop client of the video conferencing tool Zoom, which would allow malicious websites to turn on your Mac's webcam without you even knowing.

I can't help but note that today is April 1st

 

[stockhausen]

The UK government has defended using Zoom to hold cabinet video conferences.

Questions had been raised about potential security risks after the prime minister tweeted a picture in which a meeting ID was visible. "In the current unprecedented circumstances, the need for effective channels of communication is vital," a government spokeswoman told BBC News. A source added the app was quick to set up between the varying systems used by different government departments. (LINK)

Based on current Government pronouncements, that sounds like the death knell for ZOOM

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
It's now the 2nd and the vulnerability still exists. It's amazing how functionality seems to beat the requirement for security.
. . .

Yes, depressing really
I guess that ZOOM will in due course fix this particular bug and everything will be fine until the next flaw is identified. It would be nice if ZOOM had a tab on their website acknowledging security flaws and stating when they had been fixed.

Despite this, I am happy to persevere with ZOOM; at this time, people need some way to keep in touch.

 

[stockhausen]

Just used ZOOM - there is an "Update" which "Fixed the UNC link issue".

 

[stockhausen]

Hey, hows the superior product working out?. . . .

Fine; thanks for asking.

As it happens, I don't belive that the people who I have advised to use it ever record and save meetings - I doubt that they even know how to do so and who really wants to hear idle chat about their grandchildren's antics anyhow?

 

[stockhausen]

Singapore bans teachers using Zoom

Singapore has suspended the use of video-conferencing tool Zoom by teachers after “very serious incidents” in the first week of a coronavirus lockdown that has seen schools move to home-based learning.

One incident involved obscene images appearing on screens and male strangers making lewd comments during the streaming of a geography lesson with teenage girls, media reports said. (LINK)

I would be interested to see what the company (ZOOM) has to say about this?