Am being ripped off

Cheekykid · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:22

I ordered a satellite receiver which never came nor did they ever reply any of my emails. After almost 3 weeks i decided to buy it from a different store. To my suprise the receiver ordered in the first place arrived and I ended up with 2 receivers even though I had canceled that order with severals emails :mad:

. I got a copy of the emails sent but I can't access my hard drive through the windows installed in that drive. It has to be done through my current installation so i need to know where does outlook saves it's messages? there must be a folder somewhere.

I immediately returned the receiver back to www.smssat.biz and after 5 days I got a letter which says: For faultless goods returned or cancelled, refunds surcharged by 20%. :mad:

The item costs £160 so 20% out of it is a lot especially for an item which first I had cancelled(fact provable) and second how stupid can they be to send an order out after 3weeks passed :mad:

. Can they surcharge anything they like? what the consumers law says?

I need to find my emails so that i can have a case should this matter end up at a small claims court. Not its not about the money its about principle. I won't get victimized like that by these muppets :mad:

WillyNelson · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:24

That penalty on the return seems a bit unfair. Isn't there a rule on cooling off periods for distance selling, ie internet orders?

Cheekykid · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:27

Nelson said:
That penalty on the return seems a bit unfair. Isn't there a rule on cooling off periods for distance selling, ie internet orders?

Yup exactly. There is a cooling off period by law of 14 days as far as I remember. If i can find my emails i can prove that the order was cancelled.
Where does outlook save them :confused:

Am thinking of calling my bank and report the money taken as non authorized.

SiD the Turtle · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:28

Cooling off period under the distance selling act gives you seven working days from receipt of goods to inspect them. If you are not happy you are entitled to contact them by letter, fax or email to cancel your agreement and return the goods. You are entitled to your money back, but I don't think that covers delivery costs:

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0051-1111.txt

Geoff · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:34

Did you order the receiver in a store, or by phone, web, catalog, etc?

If you ordered in-store and had to wait for delivery, you have a problem.

If you ordered by any form of distance method (i.e. where you weren't physically present), then you have a right to cancel orders for most types of goods (and certainly including this) within working days of delivery, and you not NOT have to provide a reason, nor do the goods have to be faulty. You can simply change your mind.

You may (depending on the stores terms and conditions) have to pay to ship the receiver back, but providing you cancelled under the Distance Selling Regulations, they are not, emphatically NOT allowed to charge a restocking fee. It is illegal to do so. I'll dig out the relevant clause and quote it if you wish.

Point this fact out to them.

But, find and print those cancelling emails. A Distance Selling Regs cancellation MUST be in a durable form, and a phone call is not acceptable. If it comes to arguing the point, you may well need proof that you cancelled.

PS. The Distance Selling Regulations (DSR) is what most people call the law, but the actual name is the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, and is law passed in the form of a Statutory Instrument (not an Act) which gives the consumer a broad range of extra rights, and embeds extra terms into the Sale of Goods Act, thereby forming a part of every retail sale, whether the retailer likes it or not. The satellite shop cannot opt out of their DSR obligations. If they try, point Trading Standards at them.

Cheekykid · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:36

SiD the Turtle said:
Cooling off period under distance selling act gives you seven working days from receipt of good to inspect them. If you are not happy you are entitled to contact them by letter, fax or email to cancel your agreement and return the goods. You are entitled to your money back, but I don't think that covers delivery costs:

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0051-1111.txt

I got the reciever off the internet.

Am willing to forget the delivery costs. I sent the delivery back 1 day after it had arrived and I got proof of it since it was recorded.
Would it not be wise to get my bank into the game?

Geoff · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:37

Cheekykid said:
Yup exactly. There is a cooling off period by law of 14 days as far as I remember.

7 working days (i.e. not including weekends or bank holidays), starting the day after you take delivery.

And that assumes that you've been notified of the things the DSR requires the shop to notify you of. If you haven't, that period starts either when they do notify you, or three months after delivery if they still haven't done so. So 7 working days after delivery is the minimum possible.

Note though, that while it doesn't affect you this time, not all orders are covered. Most are, but there are exceptions, so what I've said here can't necessarily be applied to all orders.

SiD the Turtle · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:37

Cheekykid said:
I got the reciever off the internet.

Am willing to forget the delivery costs. I sent the delivery back 1 day after it had arrived and I got proof of it since it was recorded.
Would it not be wise to get my bank into the game?

I think Geoff above has the best idea. I'm not an expert but I'd say that cancelling the payment might look a bit dodgy on your part. If you have sent them an email within the seven days you're good. When you lose your 20%, sic trading standards on them. They've always been helpful to me.

Cheekykid · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:42

I had placed the order and after 2-3 weeks of no delivery i sent them couple of emails to cancel it. Got no reply, though my emails didn't bounce back

I think am entitled for a full refund minus shipping costs. I need to find my emails though. In what form outlook saves them?

Geoff · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:48

Cheekykid said:
I had placed the order and after 2-3 weeks of no delivery i sent them couple of emails to cancel it. Got no reply, though my emails didn't bounce back

I think am entitled for a full refund minus shopping costs. I need to find my emails though. In what form outlook saves them?

Well, one of the provisions of the DSR is that the retailer is obliged to provide you with contact methods. It's part of that "information" I referred to above. You can then notify them via that contact method, or to the business contact address last known to the consumer. If you do (and you did, I presume), then cancellation notice is defined as having been given on the day you SENT it, not if or when it arrived.

It's section 10 (4) (d) of the DSR :-

4) A notice of cancellation given under this regulation by a consumer to a supplier or other person is to be treated as having been properly given if the consumer -

(a) leaves it at the address last known to the consumer and addressed to the supplier or other person by name (in which case it is to be taken to have been given on the day on which it was left);

(b) sends it by post to the address last known to the consumer and addressed to the supplier or other person by name (in which case, it is to be taken to have been given on the day on which it was posted);

(c) sends it by facsimile to the business facsimile number last known to the consumer (in which case it is to be taken to have been given on the day on which it is sent); or

(d) sends it by electronic mail, to the business electronic mail address last known to the consumer (in which case it is to be taken to have been given on the day on which it is sent).

Note the bits in bold.

Cheekykid · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:53

Geoff said:
Well, one of the provisions of the DSR is that the retailer is obliged to provide you with contact methods. It's part of that "information" I referred to above. You can then notify them via that contact method, or to the business contact address last known to the consumer. If you do (and you did, I presume), then cancellation notice is defined as having been given on the day you SENT it, not if or when it arrived.

It's section 10 (4) (d) of the DSR :-

Note the bits in bold.

That's right but I need to find where outlook has the emails :eek:

Sp00n · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:55

C:\Documents and Settings\**username**\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook

?

Geoff · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:58

Cheekykid said:
...

I think am entitled for a full refund minus shipping costs.

You might be entitled to shipping costs, too.

Among the information that should have been communicated to you is who (you or the shop) is responsible for those costs if you cancel under the DSR. Essentially, if the conditions don't specify that you're responsible, then you aren't.

Whether it's worth the hassle of working out who's responsible, and what they did or didn't tell you and when, and then perhaps arguing about it, is another matter. You may well feel it's not worth the hassle. But, technically, you might be entitled to those costs back too.

Having said that, any retailer that's even remotely aware of the DSR will have in their conditions that the consumer is resonsible for this. They are especially naive if they don't. Having said that, their actions so far don't recommend them as the sharpest tools in the box, do they?

Cheekykid · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:58

Sp00n said:
C:\Documents and Settings\**username**\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook

?

nop

Geoff · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:59

Cheekykid said:
That's right but I need to find where outlook has the emails

I'm glad someone else answered that, 'cos I don't use Outlook (other than for PDA sync).

Edit - or not.

Sp00n · 11 Oct 2006 at 11:59

What kind of email account is it? POP/Exchange/IMAP/HTTP ?

Cheekykid · 11 Oct 2006 at 12:00

Sp00n said:
What kind of email account is it? POP/Exchange/IMAP/HTTP ?

POP

Geoff,

Here's what their website says:We appreciate that you would like your goods delivered as quickly as possible. We take pride in shipping items ordered within a maximum of 48 hours if the item is in stock. If there are any problems, we will contact you immediately. For small items we always try to aim for next day delivery.

Their website has absolutely nothing else relevant. They dont even have terms and conditions.www.smssat.biz

They never contacted me. I need to find my emails!!!

Sp00n · 11 Oct 2006 at 12:01

Have you set outlook to keep a copy of the emails on the server or not?

Cheekykid · 11 Oct 2006 at 12:02

Sp00n said:
Have you set outlook to keep a copy of the emails on the server or not?

no

DB_SamX · 11 Oct 2006 at 12:05

Geoff said:
You might be entitled to shipping costs, too.

Among the information that should have been communicated to you is who (you or the shop) is responsible for those costs if you cancel under the DSR. Essentially, if the conditions don't specify that you're responsible, then you aren't.

Whether it's worth the hassle of working out who's responsible, and what they did or didn't tell you and when, and then perhaps arguing about it, is another matter. You may well feel it's not worth the hassle. But, technically, you might be entitled to those costs back too.

Having said that, any retailer that's even remotely aware of the DSR will have in their conditions that the consumer is resonsible for this. They are especially naive if they don't. Having said that, their actions so far don't recommend them as the sharpest tools in the box, do they?

THose rules regarding costs of returning goods, do they have to post them to me with my invoice/contract for example, or is the fact that they are somewhere on their webiste enough?

I am in a similar situation cancelling an order not fully received. I am just wondering if I will be charged to send the 1 arrived good back.