Am i nuts to consider spending £800 on upgrading from a P4 NW [email protected] to an Opty 170?

[easyrider]

Hi again all,

still waiting for my shipment of 170's, been an interesting few days!

I have concluded that this 408L hysteria is just hype! It is a phenomena that exists only in the overclockers.co.uk forums.

I have spent many many days trawling the overclocking forums of the world, and it seems most hardcore overclockers are dealing with batches and steppings. Getting down to microscopic details such as the specific wafer-charge (in this example it's 408L) is just a step too far and I believe any claims that is a super-uber chip are unfounded. People may have clocked them very high but from the evidence that has been shown I believe these overclocks are *far* from stable.

My only mistake here was believing some of the claims that have been made so far, and I really wish some people would take more time to test for *super* stability before rushing to make a post

hehe this is the sort of misleading post that I am talking about

Lastly I have managed to sell at least four 170's to clients and working on the rest now, by not buying them from overclockers.co.uk I stand to be at least £500 better off, maybe more. . .

Huh? no I was just grumbling about lack of screenshots, its so easy to say an overclock is stable/solid/rock etc but if you have a good look around the forums you will see not a heap to back it up. I'm not saying anyone is lying, just mistaken.

In this one thread for example, the evidence of stability is very thin, probably the best screenie was supplied by mercyless, showing a completed cycle of S&M, but the other few are simple 32mb super PI, or a 3D-Mark loop, bits and pieces.

As someone who is interested in overclocking, I would like to see a whole desktop picture showing everything possible, 12-24hour loops of primes, cpu-z pages showing CPu results, finished 32MB super-PI runs, S&M, OCCT etc etc.

Also I would like to see the temps from the whole period of the test (high-low) voltages, etc

As much as you can cram into a screenshot basically

 

[Big.Wayne]

Whats your point?

 

[easyrider]

Whats your point?

hey mate there was no point!

just the info about the opty 170.

these things are great chips and you asked about stability and stuff.

My findings are correct and as the OP is looking at getting a 170 well its the cpu to get on initial findings

 

[Big.Wayne]

hey mate there was no point!

so are you in the habit of dragging up old posts and quoting them for no reason?

whats wrong with you?

*** Official Opteron 170 Ocing Thread ***

 

[easyrider]

so are you in the habit of dragging up old posts and quoting them for no reason?

whats wrong with you?

*** Official Opteron 170 Ocing Thread ***

sorry I thought you got it

 

[Brwmogazos]

Hi mate.

I may be the only one to have a different opinion than all the others but i dont really think its worth 800 quid...i mean just think about it...its 800 quid not 80 for what? A few more fps in gaming?

Dont get me wrong some people may remember me arround here from the good old days...i have been clocking a lot buying-preordering latest gear etc.14 cpus in a year and a half...if i am not mistaken...

your cpu aint dead yet man.3.3ghz is fine for gaming.You also got an X850XT...its not a bad card at all.Ok its not as fast as the new Atis but come on..do you really think those few more fps are worth that lot?

Since last july i havent upgraded a single thing in my pc...9800raddy prescott 3.4...MAX3 etc.I even bought an X800PRO and a 6800GT when they came out and sold them same day...decided to keep the 9800pro.I am using my rig till today...no probs man...its fast...not as fast as new gear but dont you think you shouuld better wait another say 6 months...save another 200 quid and then do an upgrade?

I am saying this cos all those cpus and graphics cards and ram and mobos and every other component i upgraded never made the smile on my face bigger.If you relly want a faster pc more responsive that you will feel in desktop etc use then only a fast HDD will achieve that.I am using 15K scsi and its all i have to say is man it was worth it.It was hard to realise myself that upgrading every month wasnt worth it at the end..but now after nearly 2? years with the same rig...i think different...

 

[Andrew_McP]

If you have plenty of spare cash then upgrading for the fun of it is as good a hobby as any other. But when contemplating an upgrade I always try to do it for a concrete reason. Pushing game FPS from 80 to 120 isn't a good reason... especially on a 60Hz LCD Pushing FPS from 25 to 30-35 would be though, and that's what's pushing me towards a cost effective overclockable upgrade from my 2.2GHz mobile Barton. The flight sim I use most eats CPU power for breakfast, and these forums have a wealth of experience to draw on when chasing a "cheap" upgrade.

However the downside of forums like this is that it's easy to get sucked into "just one more wafffer-thin step up the CPU ladder" trap. You come to collect advice on one CPU and end up contemplating another, more expensive chip. Then a third... then back to the original chip, then off to a fourth and... and... and in the end you get cheesed off and buy *anything* just to stop you dithering any more.

So... er... If something you currently run *needs* to run faster, parting with the cash won't be a problem. If everything you run is satisfactory, then put the money safely in your savings account and come back again in six months.

Andrew McP... struggling very badly with his promise never to waste more than £100 on a CPU ever again. I think I may have to wait a while for an Opteron 165 to drop that far

 

[AWPC]

Unless you game @ 1600x1200 or higher better to hold off & wait.

Within the next few months both AMD + Intel will have newer faster CPUs & maybe mobos to support them.

Not much point upgrading from what you have unless AA is a big issue for you as what you have can still do most games @ 30FPS although some need a little tweaking.

The upgrade you suggest will obviously be quicker but not IMO £800 well spent as in 6 months time it will be worth perhaps 50% less due to the newer kit out by then hitting 2nd hand pricing on existing stuff even more.

For what you already have you could get a cheap 3.4 Prescott or Northwood then oc it to 4+Ghz (the Northwood may struggle but the Prescott will give a much better OC)and still have it silent on air. You could even get a 3Ghz prescott as those OC well + all Prescotts have 1Mb L2 cache which does give it a boost over NW in many apps.However this will not give a huge boost but @ least it will be cheaper if you get the CPU 2nd hand.

In the past year I have gone from a Dell2001 + AGP6800GT256 + P3 3.2 to 7800GTX512 + P4 3.8 + Dell 2405 and spent well over £2K in the process even taking into account the £800 or so I got for my old parts. I have not noticed a huge difference in gaming FPS wise only that I can have full details + AA on some but not even all games as the Dell2405 needs 1920x1200 to look best. No point me keeping my 2001 as the 7800GTX512 would have been wasted @ 1600x1200. So as you see it becomes a very expensive vicous circle and unless your very wealthy not worth it. With the benefit of hindsight I wish I had got an Xbox360 + 32" LCD TV and kept my old PC.

Thats one other option for you to consider. Get a 32" LCDTV and run your PC through it then lower gfx details + AA will not be an issue as much although web surfing may be a little harder due to the text size.

 

[easyrider]

Within the next few months both AMD + Intel will have newer faster CPUs & maybe mobos to support them..

The opty 170 will do FX 62 speeds for 300 quid.

The upgrade you suggest will obviously be quicker but not IMO £800 well spent as in 6 months time it will be worth perhaps 50% less due to the newer kit out by then hitting 2nd hand pricing on existing stuff even more..

This happens with all pc hardware.The x1900 will be worth less in 6 months time.This is what happens.If you held of waited you wouldn't buy anything.

For what you already have you could get a cheap 3.4 Prescott or Northwood then oc it to 4+Ghz (the Northwood may struggle but the Prescott will give a much better OC)and still have it silent on air. You could even get a 3Ghz prescott as those OC well + all Prescotts have 1Mb L2 cache which does give it a boost over NW in many apps.However this will not give a huge boost but @ least it will be cheaper if you get the CPU 2nd hand..

He already has an intel NW cpu running @ 3.3ghz so why suggest he get a new one?

In the past year I have gone from a Dell2001 + AGP6800GT256 + P3 3.2 to 7800GTX512 + P4 3.8 + Dell 2405 and spent well over £2K in the process even taking into account the £800 or so I got for my old parts. I have not noticed a huge difference in gaming FPS...

Thats because Intels are not as good for gaming.An opty running at 2.8ghz would be better than an intel running at 3.8ghz

I currently run a p4 NW [email protected]. on stock volts on a P4C800 Deluxe with 2gb OCZ ram and an X850XTPE.

I have, however, been tempted to spend over £800 on an Opteron 170 and X1900XTX and an ASUS motherboard.

However, as i don't know anyone that runs AMD64 processors i am really hesitant on whether this is a sensible use of cash.

The main use of my PC is games playing, mostly FPS, but with the odd RTS and sports title thrown in. It would be essential for me, however, to run a very, very quiet rig as my current setup is nigh on silent and is full on zalman and silenx components.

If there is anyone out there that has made a similar upgrade is it really worth it....

I moved from a intel 3.4ghz to my now opty 170 running at FX62 speeds and the difference was amazing.

I would go for it and get an opty 170 a stable s939 mobo and keep the ram you have.

socket am2 is nothing but a pin change.Wait for it to settle and get a stable s939 now.

As I have said there is no point in waiting as you would never get anything.

something new is always around the corner.

 

[stigggeh]

I cant see your pc being 'that' slow at the moment.... unless you have a huge monitor and want to run high res. Upgrading to willy wave is something i have been guilty of in the past and isnt worth it.

i can understand the theory "if you keep waiting you will never upgrade", but on the other hand we will see two major changes in the near future (conroe for intel and AM2 for amd)

If conroe is all its cracked up to be You will be kicking yourself if you wait and conroe dwarfs everything. Another thing if you buy S939 now i think your future upgrade path maybe more limited than it would waiting for AM2.

 

[Boah]

Within the next few months both AMD + Intel will have newer faster CPUs & maybe mobos to support them.

Personally I would only play the waiting game if you're prepared to wait - forever. There is always something new coming, and it's easy to end up just waiting for the next great thing.

That being said, the move AM2 is major change-over for AMD, something that hasn't happened for a while, so it may be worth waiting so that your upgrade path is more future proof. According to THG ( ) AM2 is due to be launched in early June. There you go, nothing like contradictory advise

I currently run a p4 NW [email protected]. on stock volts on a P4C800 Deluxe with 2gb OCZ ram and an X850XTPE.

I have, however, been tempted to spend over £800 on an Opteron 170 and X1900XTX and an ASUS motherboard.

I just spent near £2K on buying a complete new system knowing about various hardware roadmaps in the next 6-9 months. Asus A8N32, AMD Opteron 170, X1900XT, X-Fi and so on. That's upgrading from a P4 Prescott 2.8 (which overclocked to 3.2 before the PSU blew, so it's now running at stock with a generic one) with an X800XT PE. Is it worth it? I think it is, but I wouldn't be surprised or hold it against you if anyone else thinks it's not

One of my criterias were noise levels - I wanted a system that is quiet, as my current rig certainly isn't. I seem to have succeeded but I've not yet finished hooking up everything properly. I haven't played any games yet, as I'm still tinkering with the limits of the CPU and the rest of the system in terms of how far I can push it.

So there you go; that's a fairly similar upgrade to the one you're looking at. If it's worth it to you really comes down to what resolutions you want to game on.

 

[Big.Wayne]

I may be the only one to have a different opinion than all the others but i dont really think its worth 800 quid...i mean just think about it...its 800 quid not 80 for what? A few more fps in gaming?

Hi Brwmogazos, sure I remember you, I was there back when we were all scambling to find 30 cappers/m0 stepping P4s

I understand your opinion 100%

Having said that I did decide to upgrade about 1 month ago now, from an overclocked P4/springdale/9800Pro to an Opteron 146/nForce4-Sli/X850XT.

The weakest link in my old system was the Radeon 9800Pro, as good a card as it still *is* I was missing out on being able to play games using my DELL 24" widescreen. After a lot of headscratching I decided it was a bad idea to throw a lump of cash at an AGP update, so I bit the bullet and moved over to A64.

My existing system/structure (Case/PSU/Mem, etc) was sound so I only needed to buy a new CPU, Mobo and PCI-Express, think it came to a grand total of £470? pound approx.

Having owned a Hyper-Threading P4 for a few years I was a little concerned about switching to a pure single core CPU but much to my suprise the Opteron running at a humble 2GHz was wickedly fast!!! I mean we have all read these forums and seen the way people are talking about A64 etc etc but Im happy to confirm that its basically true.

In the case of the O.P who already has an AGP X850XT in his P4 system the choice is not so easy.

Thing is, the nForce4-SLI platform is pretty refined at this stage and very mature, basically a no-nonsense platform (SLI driver issues aside!). AMD look ready to release their updated platform sometime this year (AM2/DDR2) so the choice is again made trickier, but I think I would prefere to wait until this platform has bedded down a bit, maybe had a revison or two and has full working driver support, so I went for the mature nForce4-SLI, so far so good!

 

[easyrider]

Thing is, the nForce4-SLI platform is pretty refined at this stage and very mature, basically a no-nonsense platform (SLI driver issues aside!). AMD look ready to release their updated platform sometime this year (AM2/DDR2) so the choice is again made trickier, but I think I would prefere to wait until this platform has bedded down a bit, maybe had a revison or two and has full working driver support, so I went for the mature nForce4-SLI, so far so good!

I agree.I will waiting for AM2 to bed in also before I upgrade.

 

[ACESHIGH]

We all spend our cash on something. It seams like its a step you want to take & i agree with you & most of the other posters. It will be a big boost in performance & the Optys run pretty cool too, so no worries there either. Enjoy.

 

[m3csl2004]

dont forget mate your old stuff is worth a few bob on the open market ( around 250 quid i get it to)

 

[NightmareXX]

The system you've got at the moment should be fine for any gaming you do

Look at my system! My last upgrade was the X700 Pro and even thats an AGP card.

*Points to sig text*

I can run almost every game on my system including FEAR, Quake4, HL2, Doom 3. True I have to turn down some of the options to get it running smooth but they still look amazing

I'm waiting a few months for prices of the 64 AMD's to come down etc. then I might upgrade.

If I were you, I'd be happy with what I've got

 

[Clint]

Get the DFI Ultra-d rev AD0 board and a 170 Opteron..(pay a bit more for a good stepping)

Keep your GFX card until the newer cards that supports DX10 is out..later this year.
If you go AMD dual and get a decent board you will not need to upgrade that GFX...the improvments will blow you away anyway...and you will save up some dollares until the DX10 cards are coming out
When the new games are out that supports dual core and DX10 it's time to buy that GFX card.

And this is not even mentioning the support that AMD2 will have for that DRM/TC/Palladium/Fritzchip...or whatever it's called these days.

I will stay on my socket 939 board and Opty 170'er until that is "taken care of"

 

[Spudgun]

Thanks for all the comments guys, they are really helpful.

Clint, my current graphics card is AGP though, so keeping it isn't an option

 

[easyrider]

Thanks for all the comments guys, they are really helpful.

Clint, my current graphics card is AGP though, so keeping it isn't an option

So what are you going to do?
Wait or play!

waiting for the next gen dx10 cards is daft IMO you would lose months of gaming!

 

[marc2003]

just drop a dothan in that mobo of yours and watch it fly....