why are there two versions of the AMD Quad Core Phenom II X4 965 125 Watt!! Black Edition 3.4GHz Socket AM3...one at 140watts the other at 125watts?? is there a benefit to which one you for? Will it make a difference to the MB its going on Asus M4N82 Deluxe nForce 980a SLi (Socket AM3) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard?
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AM3 Quad
- Thread starter Gopher04
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I'm suprised to hear that from someone with a Propus X4 Quad Core 630 @ 3.6Ghz
Priced at about £140 I don't see the appeal of the flagship AMD processor myself?
I agree the silicon is improved but sooner or later all the chips will be produced on a C3 revision, if you wait you could save some £££
Are you intending to attempt some record breaking benchmarks or something along those lines? . . . I'm not sure spending a large sum of money to go from an AMD quad at 3.6GHz to an AMD quad at 4.0GHz is gonna be worth it?
Have you maxed your Propus at 3.6GHz?
I'm suprised to hear that from someone with a Propus X4 Quad Core 630 @ 3.6Ghz
Priced at about £140 I don't see the appeal of the flagship AMD processor myself?
I agree the silicon is improved but sooner or later all the chips will be produced on a C3 revision, if you wait you could save some £££
Are you intending to attempt some record breaking benchmarks or something along those lines? . . . I'm not sure spending a large sum of money to go from an AMD quad at 3.6GHz to an AMD quad at 4.0GHz is gonna be worth it?
Have you maxed your Propus at 3.6GHz?
The silicon is vastly superior even though the propus is based on the deneb design. The IMC compaired to the phenom is lacking substance at best.
Dont get me wrong, the propus is good for what it is, a 100 quid quad core but it does miss something and im sure that phenom will be my little baby for a bit before i more to the Thuban.
Yes, 3.6Ghz is the max for me with this chip. It wont budge any higher the chip seems to be a average clocker.
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I don't think it's that much better? . . . at least from everything I've read? . . . . If your prefere the Magic 4.0GHz then I agree you got more chance with the latest C3 silicon but once you start spending more than £100 on a chip alone then why are you not lusting after Intel® Core™ i5
That's interesting as I was led to believe the IMC on the Propus was slightly better than the Deneb, the Propus IMC was *tweaked* to help it offset the lack of L3 cache . . .
If you got anymore info on this I would be interested to read it . . . . what is your criteria for a good IMC and a bad IMC btw?
but that'll mean a new motherboard and ram also so more moneyIbut once you start spending more than £100 on a chip alone then why are you not lusting after Intel® Core™ i5
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I don't think it's that much better? . . . at least from everything I've read? . . . . If your prefere the Magic 4.0GHz then I agree you got more chance with the latest C3 silicon but once you start spending more than £100 on a chip alone then why are you not lusting after Intel® Core™ i5
That's interesting as I was led to believe the IMC on the Propus was slightly better than the Deneb, the Propus IMC was *tweaked* to help it offset the lack of L3 cache . . .
If you got anymore info on this I would be interested to read it . . . . what is your criteria for a good IMC and a bad IMC btw?
yes, ideally i was after a cheap quad core machine that i could do bits and bobs on, and the mrs could go on facebook
. But then i got hooked on the OC'ing. Now i was out of the scene for 5-6 years, as you notice i joined OC forums back in 05 however have not passed 100 posts.Now im overclocking again, i have the OC bug back. I have reached this chips max and im bored i guess and yes, that big 4.0Ghz is luring me in and im hook'd i think! The i5 will either be next if the thuban is not out by the time i want to try. Trust me by next time this year i will probably be on intel and have spend enough to purchase a small car but thats usually the way i go about things.
Yes, i have heard that the IMC on the propus was 'tweaked' due to the lack of L3 however i cant seem to find out any information bar a few forums posts on a few sites suggesting that.
I am just scouring where i read about the IMC on the ''lower end quads'' as they called it (620) They suggested not to expect miracles IMC wise however suggested the phenom II (C3) didnt suffer the same issue.
I will drop you a message when i find it.
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if i wanna point something out i can..Put a sock in it Gareth!
afew times you've said about the I5 when a person says about get a high-end phenom II. i agree a i5 is better but its not the case of just buying the chip. u also need to remember the person would need to buy the motherboard also maybe ram..
if the person has already got a amd setup it'll be cheaper to upgrade the cpu
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Thanks for that, always interesting to know what is going around someones mind! 
I can totally relate to what you are saying having been a computer hardware addict myself for many years! . . . what you are doing is Chasing-The-Phenom™ II-Dragon
TBH you don't have to say anything more to Justify your purchase, if you decided there is something about the C3 chip that you Admire then I don't think anyone can stop you!
I am curious though how much time and effort you have put in to try and overclock your nice Propus quad? . . . . I've been testing an AMD system for just over a month, slowly and methodically getting to grips with whats going on under-the-hood, the Athlon II Rana triple-core I am using is basically the same as what you have minus one core, even after one month I would say I am about 40% of the way there to really understanding how the platform works . . . . Do you think you have given it enough time with the Propus? . . . . is the problem perhaps your lack of knowledge about the overclocking side of things or is it indeed just the chip and you know this because you been testing it for months and have hit an impassable wall?
I think for the money you have spent you got a stunningly good system, a Propus x4 @ 3.6GHz is great, I hope I can get my X3 chip stable at that speed . . . .
P.S: I've had a PhII 550 BE in the shopping basket for the past few weeks, I do really want to give one of those a spin and the *unlock* possibility is a real sweetner. Priced at approx £70 is certainly offers enough grunt out-the-box to deal with most of our needs but get it overclocked and I'm sure no-one would be left wanting . . . .
Do as you think is best but I can assure you there will always be some nice *upgrade* ready and waiting for a price, it's always been this way and will always continue to be as long as we live in an economic world!
I can totally relate to what you are saying having been a computer hardware addict myself for many years! . . . what you are doing is Chasing-The-Phenom™ II-Dragon
TBH you don't have to say anything more to Justify your purchase, if you decided there is something about the C3 chip that you Admire then I don't think anyone can stop you!
I am curious though how much time and effort you have put in to try and overclock your nice Propus quad? . . . . I've been testing an AMD system for just over a month, slowly and methodically getting to grips with whats going on under-the-hood, the Athlon II Rana triple-core I am using is basically the same as what you have minus one core, even after one month I would say I am about 40% of the way there to really understanding how the platform works . . . . Do you think you have given it enough time with the Propus? . . . . is the problem perhaps your lack of knowledge about the overclocking side of things or is it indeed just the chip and you know this because you been testing it for months and have hit an impassable wall?
I think for the money you have spent you got a stunningly good system, a Propus x4 @ 3.6GHz is great, I hope I can get my X3 chip stable at that speed . . . .
P.S: I've had a PhII 550 BE in the shopping basket for the past few weeks, I do really want to give one of those a spin and the *unlock* possibility is a real sweetner. Priced at approx £70 is certainly offers enough grunt out-the-box to deal with most of our needs but get it overclocked and I'm sure no-one would be left wanting . . . .
Do as you think is best but I can assure you there will always be some nice *upgrade* ready and waiting for a price, it's always been this way and will always continue to be as long as we live in an economic world!
Yep, AM3 is new to me, totally new however overclocking is not and i can assure you i have been down every route possible available to me with this board/ram/cpu to see if i could clock higher. If i say ive spend around 2 months almost every evening working on this i am probably not far off what i have actually spend. When i say i have rebooted this machine 100's if not 1000's of times i wouldnt be far off again.
I would be happy to add you to msn if you use it and we can go through some things just to be sure however im on a fair few OC forums and posted my results/cpuz/temps etc and they all seems to think something is limiting instead of knowledge however each suggest a different component and i might aswell buy a new pc again to see if it was the ram or the mobo or the cpu
I would be happy to add you to msn if you use it and we can go through some things just to be sure however im on a fair few OC forums and posted my results/cpuz/temps etc and they all seems to think something is limiting instead of knowledge however each suggest a different component and i might aswell buy a new pc again to see if it was the ram or the mobo or the cpu
Hello Gareth,no!
everytime I try and question someone over their logic of purchasing a flagship AMD CPU you always seem to jump in and answer my question as if I am talking to you, defending your purchase if you will . . .
Obviously you and I have discussed the merits of the various options but it concluded with you admitting to being an AMD fanboy and the best PhII X4 BE selling point you could come up with was "It's what I wanted!"
I'm not wasting my time trying to have a reasonable and logical conversation with a Fanboy because by definition they are biased
I think both AMD and INTEL make great products and I'm happy using either, therefore any recommendations I make have no bias and will always suggest the best value technology at that moment in time . . .
I think AMD come up with some great tech and get innovations to market a lot quicker than Intel can . . however what you gotta understand is that once Intel get to work on their version of what AMD already has then Intels version will be better . . . .
I personally don't think many people actually need a quad core but for those that do the Intel® Core™ i5 is more up for the job of killer processing power to eat into rendering/encoding jobs . . . priced very similarly to the PhII BE C3 it makes more sense to go Intel . . . however as already stated you can buy an AMD CPU and motherboard for the same price as the flagship processor i.e an Athlon II Triple Core and ASUS 785G DDR2 motherboard cost less than the PhII X4 processor alone . . . . do you think the PhII X4 computer can do anything the AII X3 computer cannot do? . . . . do you think that outside of benchmarks you could tell the difference?
The strength of AMD is in their budget kit where they offer more technology for the money than Intel, perhaps this is an AMD strategy to get people to buy into the platform and then be in a better position to hook them on upgrades?. I can see no sense at all having a wodge of money and splurging it on a High End AMD when you could buy an Intel Solution for similar money . . . or you could yoke the AMD value solutions to come up with a half-price build!
AMD Budget Kit = Black
INTEL High End Kit = White
no i don't!!!
i was just making a point that it's not just the case of buying a i5 chip.
if someone that doesn't know much about hardware and as a amd setup, and if that person reads your post they may think its just the case of buying a i5 chip and put it in they amd board....
also if u read my post fully above u would have seen i said "i agree a i5 is better but its not the case of just buying the chip"
I said i prefer AMD/ATI. and i said if that makes me an fanboy in people eyes then so be it. also i said i wanted the highest quad that amd offered
i never said to u im a fanboy.
same with intel i7/i5 to the lower end quads and dual cores..
but people want the latest hardware...
edit: oh yes i went from a x3 to a x4 and i could tell the difference in multitasking
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You think someone reading my posts will think they can plug a Core i5 into their AM2+/AM3 motherboard?
You know Gareth I can see you becoming a really useful member of the OcUK community in the future but your gonna have to be dragged kicking & screaming to that point!
If someone has a chunk of money to spend on a new 2010 machine and they have the choice of an AMD® PhII™ X4 BE DDR3 system and an Intel® Core™i5 DDR3 system then the people that genuinely need processing power will be better served by the Intel® technology . . . .
If someone already owns a decent AM2+/AM3 system then there is no real need to upgrade (apart from upgradusaddictus, benchmarkaddictus and ePeenaddictus), if they are using a much older processor then the AII Propus triple-core and quad-core options more than cover them . . and yes, If their reasons for upgrading was based on wanting/needing a processing-power boost then I would argue the case for buying a new Intel® Core™i5 DDR3 system and selling their older AMD CPU and Motherboard . . . .
I think regarding CPU budget in AMD land £70 *more* than covers you. I paid £70.41 for both an OEM AMD AII X3 425 and a premium ThermoLab Baram heatsink, throw in a really nice ASUS 785G motherboard and your still spending less money than a flagship AMD PhII X4 processor alone!
Having had a quick think about this I don't see my viewpoint changing with the current pricing structure as it is, AMD are making a little money off a lot of sales, Intel are making a lot of profit of little sales. The Intel® Core™i5 has been deliberately priced in such a way to steal AMD PhII X4 sales, at its current price it's the obvious good pick for heavy duty processing needs . .
AMD Phenom II X4 965
£139.99 inc
Intel Core i5 750 (Lynnfield)
£154.99 inc
For anyone else who considers themselves a mortal computer user and doesn't have five virtualized O/S's, £2000's of GPU or encode videos/Fold@home while gaming then this majority can almost build half their computer for £130-£150 . . . there is seriously not a lot of benefit to the mass of people spending more than £70 on a CPU anymore, £50 is deffo a very sweet-spot . . .the only problem is a lot of people think these new low priced wonders are slow in some way!
85% of you reading this I say look at building an Athlon II PocketRocket if you got limited budget, for everyone else if you think you are a genuine Real-World power-user then the Intel® Core™i5 (or Core™i7 £££) is the only logical choice for the Professional Addict!
You know Gareth I can see you becoming a really useful member of the OcUK community in the future but your gonna have to be dragged kicking & screaming to that point!
If someone has a chunk of money to spend on a new 2010 machine and they have the choice of an AMD® PhII™ X4 BE DDR3 system and an Intel® Core™i5 DDR3 system then the people that genuinely need processing power will be better served by the Intel® technology . . . .
If someone already owns a decent AM2+/AM3 system then there is no real need to upgrade (apart from upgradusaddictus, benchmarkaddictus and ePeenaddictus), if they are using a much older processor then the AII Propus triple-core and quad-core options more than cover them . . and yes, If their reasons for upgrading was based on wanting/needing a processing-power boost then I would argue the case for buying a new Intel® Core™i5 DDR3 system and selling their older AMD CPU and Motherboard . . . .
I think regarding CPU budget in AMD land £70 *more* than covers you. I paid £70.41 for both an OEM AMD AII X3 425 and a premium ThermoLab Baram heatsink, throw in a really nice ASUS 785G motherboard and your still spending less money than a flagship AMD PhII X4 processor alone!
Having had a quick think about this I don't see my viewpoint changing with the current pricing structure as it is, AMD are making a little money off a lot of sales, Intel are making a lot of profit of little sales. The Intel® Core™i5 has been deliberately priced in such a way to steal AMD PhII X4 sales, at its current price it's the obvious good pick for heavy duty processing needs . .
AMD Phenom II X4 965
£139.99 inc
Intel Core i5 750 (Lynnfield)
£154.99 inc
For anyone else who considers themselves a mortal computer user and doesn't have five virtualized O/S's, £2000's of GPU or encode videos/Fold@home while gaming then this majority can almost build half their computer for £130-£150 . . . there is seriously not a lot of benefit to the mass of people spending more than £70 on a CPU anymore, £50 is deffo a very sweet-spot . . .the only problem is a lot of people think these new low priced wonders are slow in some way!
85% of you reading this I say look at building an Athlon II PocketRocket if you got limited budget, for everyone else if you think you are a genuine Real-World power-user then the Intel® Core™i5 (or Core™i7 £££) is the only logical choice for the Professional Addict!
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wayne, totally agree for 300 notes bar a few bits i already had, this machine is quick and with it overclocked it kills a lot of machines higher up and more expensive however i think i just cannot leave it at this. Perhaps this machine has put me on the path of spending a lot of money now just overclocking. Do i see it as a hobby...maybe. Is it going to cost me...most certainly but why not
edit: i added you on msn btw
edit: i added you on msn btw
Gentlemen (Wayne / Gareth)... I am at about bursting point due to the copious amount of popcorn I have consumed over the last week or so... but can you now agree to dis-agree before I explode for excessive popcorn intake?
For the most part you are arguing the same end of the stick at any point!
For the most part you are arguing the same end of the stick at any point!
well along long time ago someone asked/thought a intel chip can be used in a amd board.....You think someone reading my posts will think they can plug a Core i5 into their AM2+/AM3 motherboard?
my point is theres some people that isn't up on knowing about hardware..
u think your funny.. i don't know care if u think im useful or not tbh. i've helped so many people here and they've not complained or anything. they just taken what i say on board. but when i give my point to u, u just give all this...You know Gareth I can see you becoming a really useful member of the OcUK community in the future but your gonna have to be dragged kicking & screaming to that point!
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I love the violent terms we computer enthusiasts use "It kills it mate" etc
So what has happened basically is you used to be an overclocker then you stopped for a while before eventually jumping back in with the AM3 Propus as your first new build in aeons?
Well the first thing that springs to mind is what a good choice of processor you made considering you been away, how the heck did you come back from the wilderness and just select a great Propus X4?
was it a) it was quad and b) it was cheap! Has something brainwashed you, have you been spending cosy nights in looking at benchmark charts? or have you been reading posts from inmates at the local mental asylum's overclocking club?
Is it just you desire greatly a 4GHz processing speed?
What is the hobby exactly? . . . Is it the actual hardware itself or is it what you do with the hardware? or maybe a combination of both?. If you work hard and have plenty of spare funds to reward yourself then you are spoilt for choice atm, but like a kid in the candy store. If I was really loaded with money ££ atm I wouldn't be looking twice at any AMD PhII X4 BEDo i see it as a hobby...maybe. Is it going to cost me...most certainly but why not
The dilema for any computer enthusiasts with lots of spare funds atm would probably be the choice of Core i5 vs Core i7, not sure which I would choose myself but from mt perspective I cannot see any compelling reason to go with AMD at the high end?
Seeing it from a novice overclockers perspective though the unlocked CPU Multi does seem to offer a helping hand towards the magical 4GHz overclock with just the most basic of knowledge such as CPU Multi, vCore and Load Temps! . . . that is well cool and a nice move from AMD to allow that, Intel users would kill for that but sadly Intel isn't as hip as AMD in that regard!
Still for anyone that considers themselves a seasoned overclocker there is still maximum scope for overclocking with non AMD Black-edition processors but is does require more patience and skill. I was using Intel LGA775 for three years and I reckon I didn't really get my head around that platform for at least 18 months so having been on AM2+ for around a month I am aware I still got a lot to learn!
I think you got a superb set-up their lemzip and I would be personally much more interested to see you get your Propus X4 above 3.6GHz than see you join the ranks of the 3.8GHz 10-loop IBT stable Phenomannabes
If your seriously lusting after power and your gonna start submitting benchmarks using an air or liquid cooled machine you should really be looking at Core i5/Core i7, however if your gonna dabble in Liquid nitrogen cooling then you may have a good arguement for buying a PhII X4 965 and making OcUK famous!