AMD announce EPYC

Vince · 2 Oct 2019 at 11:35

ChrisD. said:
How are you planning on setting it up? Using host cache?

Haven't even looked at it yet. That does sound like a good thing to do though. I just thought more faster storage could only be a good thing

Wasn't cheap though, about 3k for 9 2tb drives and really you want them to be offering something up for that sort of cost. - You and all this thinking ahead and stuff and here is me straight up shooting from the hip

ChrisD. · 2 Oct 2019 at 11:37

It'll only use the drives as write cache for the VM swap files, I'm not aware of a way to target specific VMs.

https://docs.vmware.com/en/VMware-v...UID-4505B56B-57B1-413F-ACE3-BA2A85C3EC88.html

Obviously it would be a bad idea to run production VMs on local storage.

Vince · 2 Oct 2019 at 11:50

ChrisD. said:
It'll only use the drives as write cache for the VM swap files, I'm not aware of a way to target specific VMs.

https://docs.vmware.com/en/VMware-v...UID-4505B56B-57B1-413F-ACE3-BA2A85C3EC88.html

Obviously it would be a bad idea to run production VMs on local storage.

Perhaps I will do that then, looks like some improvements can be had there which is nice. I do plan on moving at least one production VM to find out if my storage infrastructure is causing an issue that i'm seeing with "Fast search" (Microsoft you are a joke in re-naming the ancient ESE as fast!) in exchange 2016 but you don't need 9x 2tb nvme drives to prove that. So the rest were bought more for I dunno "stuff", I might even rebuild my physical IDOL index server on one but was told yesterday that IDOL will now play nice as a VM so even that might be out the window

I'm sure ill find something to do with 18tb of fast storage, I could build a little nvme pyramid or something.

ChrisD. · 2 Oct 2019 at 12:04

You could purchase some SAS or SATA SSDs along with a vSAN license, I bet that would alleviate your storage issues.

Vince · 2 Oct 2019 at 12:09

ChrisD. said:
You could purchase some SAS or SATA SSDs along with a vSAN license, I bet that would alleviate your storage issues.

I could do that, right now i'm just going with the proof of concept. Exchange performance in everything apart from search is wonderful it's just that pesky search "Test-ExchangeSearch -identity" is far slower on 2013 and 2016 than it is on 2010 on the same hardware so im curious where the bottleneck is. Is it hardware or is it simply ESE? I dunno right now but I will find out! When I bought the drives I made everybody fully aware that this was more of a vanity addition for me to run a few tests and answer some of my own questions. Not necessarily to guarantee a performance uplift on anything at all, a vanity project if you will. If it doesn't work out or im not seeing any benefit I guess ill have 9 2tb nvme's to play with, raid 0 in my threadripper rig could be interesting.

LePhuronn · 10 Oct 2019 at 00:47

The guy annoys the bejesus out of me, but it was nice to see Linus utterly lose his **** over the 7742.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuLsrr79-Pw

Apparently he's planning more content based around EPYC Rome too. Given the nature of his audience, I can't help but think it's only a good thing for AMD's mindshare for him to rave so much.

Vince · 10 Oct 2019 at 17:33

LePhuronn said:
The guy annoys the bejesus out of me, but it was nice to see Linus utterly lose his **** over the 7742.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuLsrr79-Pw

Apparently he's planning more content based around EPYC Rome too. Given the nature of his audience, I can't help but think it's only a good thing for AMD's mindshare for him to rave so much.

It's an impressive chip for sure. I'm still fighting some bits of infrastructure before being done, it's incredible how much the envelope is getting pushed in the server space with these chips. I'll have a little watch of the video, I normally avoid LTT but will give it a watch.

humbug · 10 Oct 2019 at 17:42

Vince said:
It's an impressive chip for sure. I'm still fighting some bits of infrastructure before being done, it's incredible how much the envelope is getting pushed in the server space with these chips. I'll have a little watch of the video, I normally avoid LTT but will give it a watch.

For those of us not clued in, can you unpack this for us please?

it's incredible how much the envelope is getting pushed in the server space with these chips

LePhuronn · 10 Oct 2019 at 17:49

Vince said:
It's an impressive chip for sure. I'm still fighting some bits of infrastructure before being done, it's incredible how much the envelope is getting pushed in the server space with these chips. I'll have a little watch of the video, I normally avoid LTT but will give it a watch.

Summary: SuperMicro sent him a board and a 7742. He ran it through Cinebench R15 and R20, BMW Blender render and then ran Crysis using Google's software-only renderer for this teaser/preview. And 256GB RAM for ***** n giggles.

But it was his use of language, gesture and tone that caught my attention; wasn't just his usual OTT flamboyance, he legitimately seemed bowled over.

Vince · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:03

humbug said:
For those of us not clued in, can you unpack this for us please?

Certainly - Think of it this way, Intel can't compete with two of their best in a dual socket configuration vs a single 128 thread 7742. Combine that with 128 pci-e 4 lanes, equal (ish) power draw to a chip that it offers double the performance (plus some) of. Encrypted memory on a per vm basis plus a ton of other features and security built into the silicon.

For hyperscalers and big datacenters literally nothing even gets close when you look at the TCO (total cost of ownership) In the server space this is akin to the kind of performance leap we got going from p4 to core 2 netting big gains across the board while also being a fair chunk cheaper. In terms of density it also finally feels like a proper generational leap.

I'm really loving me epyc cpus so far they offer flexibility I didnt have before at costs we couldn't meet historically. As I was saying proper generational leap in the server space with a ton of extras plugged in for good measure.

humbug · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:06

To be fair its hard not to get excited over an "AMD Server CPU" costing £8K that beats 'two' of Intel's best £10K CPU's by about 30%, that's pretty astonishing, it makes Intel's CPU's look several generations behind, add to that 8 vs 6? Channels, 3X as much Cache, 2X as many PCIe 4 lanes vs PCIe 3 lanes, Fully integrated IO, 2 NUMa instances.

humbug · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:07

Vince said:
Certainly - Think of it this way, Intel can't compete with two of their best in a dual socket configuration vs a single 128 thread 7742. Combine that with 128 pci-e 4 lanes, equal (ish) power draw to a chip that it offers double the performance (plus some) of. Encrypted memory on a per vm basis plus a ton of other features and security built into the silicon.

For hyperscalers and big datacenters literally nothing even gets close when you look at the TCO (total cost of ownership) In the server space this is akin to the kind of performance leap we got going from p4 to core 2 netting big gains across the board while also being a fair chunk cheaper. In terms of density it also finally feels like a proper generational leap.

I'm really loving me epyc cpus so far they offer flexibility I didnt have before at costs we couldn't meet historically. As I was saying proper generational leap in the server space with a ton of extras plugged in for good measure.

Ah, yes.

Vince · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:13

humbug said:
Ah, yes.

Personally having almost finished a migration from Intel to AMD I'd be very surprised if Intel can retain the 80% market they want over the next 2 years. They could knock two thirds off of the price and I would bet my last pound that the numbers still wouldn't work in their favour. In the world of virtualisation density and tco are king and Intel are quite a way off.

humbug · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:19

Vince said:
Personally having almost finished a migration from Intel to AMD I'd be very surprised if Intel can retain the 80% market they want over the next 2 years. They could knock two thirds off of the price and I would bet my last pound that the numbers still wouldn't work in their favour. In the world of virtualisation density and tco are king and Intel are quite a way off.

You would think so, in fact you would think "why on earth would anyone buy Intel now???" but some how no matter how hilarious the comparison Intel always still manage not only to come out on top they keep their domination in market share.

I have no doubt AMD will gain significant market share, and their coffers will do well from it, but Intel will still sell vastly more server chips.

Vince · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:24

humbug said:
You would think so, in fact you would think "why on earth would anyone buy Intel now???" but some how no matter how hilarious the comparison Intel always still manage not only to come out on top they keep their domination in market share.

I have no doubt AMD will gain significant market share, and their coffers will do well from it, but Intel will still sell vastly more server chips.

Its partly because of the ease of movement of VMs between processors with a similar base architectures using tech like vmotion (moving a running virtual machine to different hardware with 0 downtime). The problem AMD have is convincing people to change it all or start new clusters. Some people just don't want that aggravation. On a massive scale that could be a pain of a project.

humbug · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:26

Vince said:
Its partly because of the ease of movement of VMs between processors with a similar base architectures using tech like vmotion (moving a running virtual machine to different hardware with 0 downtime). The problem AMD have is convincing people to change it all or start new clusters. Some people just don't want that aggravation. On a massive scale that could be a pain of a project.

I see, that makes sense.

Vince · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:30

humbug said:
I see, that makes sense.

You could also call it lack of vision for me I know what base architecture I'd want to be rocking right now in a big DC and it would be one that doesnt constantly need to be pulled down for security patching. Perhaps the argument would be different if I had thousands of sockets. I dont though O only have around 20 intel sockets and now 6 AMD sockets with 3 populated.

humbug · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:49

Well, if AMD sell 50K units that's $400.000.000 In revenue, for Intel that's pocket change, for AMD that's significant, their annual turnover is about <£7BN, compare that to Intel who turnover about <$40BN.

Intel employees 107K
AMD employees 11K

That's what i find really interesting, Intel are turning over about 5X as much revenue as AMD, they employ about 10X as many people.

Can Intel afford to compete with AMD like this?

Vince · 10 Oct 2019 at 18:56

humbug said:
Well, if AMD sell 50K units that's $400.000.000 In revenue, for Intel that's pocket change, for AMD that's significant, their annual turnover is about <£7BN, compare that to Intel who turnover about <$40BN.

Intel employees 107K
AMD employees 11K

That's what i find really interesting, Intel are turning over about 5X as much revenue as AMD, they employ about 10X as many people.

Can Intel afford to compete with AMD like this?

I think they can, they have a massive war chest so they can probably afford to compete (or not) for many years before anything comes of it. The real question is, can they make something better? Faster, smaller, cheaper and more efficient? And can they do it in a sensible time frame?

humbug · 10 Oct 2019 at 19:04

Vince said:
I think they can, they have a massive war chest so they can probably afford to compete (or not) for many years before anything comes of it. The real question is, can they make something better? Faster, smaller, cheaper and more efficient? And can they do it in a sensible time frame?

Agreed, AMD need to keep competing like this for years to come to gradually wear Intel's war chest down, this is a decade long game, i hope AMD can keep it up. I don't want to see either AMD or Intel crushed out of existence, what i want to see is a much more even fight, that's good for all of us.

I love my Ryzen 3600, its a true competitor and a great chip, i don't want to go back to a time of entry level CPU's for high end prices, we have it good right now. We need a strong Intel and AMD fighting it out to keep it up.