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amd cracked the market

WatchTower said:
I'm sure AMD rules when it comes to people that like to build their own setups.
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Yes they do, but winning that is a bit like winning the "special" school olympics. Nobody else really cares... ;) :D

If AMD or Intel wanted, they could produce chips probably 10x more powerful than what we have today. However the real trick is in commodifying it, scaling it down and mass producing it with economies of scale. Intel has a knack of pulling that off far better than what AMD can.
 
^ Only at the moment. The enthusiasts tend to go for:
1. Best bang for buck (AMD have always had a place somewhere)
2. Fastest/fastest after overclock (Intel has had their glory - and looking to regain that)
3. Somewhere between the 1 and 2. Then it depends. If Intel is performance leading, it will depend how far AMD lag. Otherwise, AMD would have course take the cake.
 
The conroe chip that whupped the fx60 is a budget model as well, looks like amd have some serious work to do, or some serious price cuts to make. Imagine how a conroe extreme edition @ 3.2 ghz will perform!
 
My opinion is that if WE have known about conroe for about a month ( lets say) AMD will have known about it for about 6 (remember AMD did poach some top Intel designers recently) if not more.

I think they WILL have something to combat it, if not at the launch of conroe very soon after ( certainly not as late at Q1 2007 )

Just My opinion mind, they wont give up their performance lead just like that
 
FrankJH said:
My opinion is that if WE have known about conroe for about a month ( lets say) AMD will have known about it for about 6 (remember AMD did poach some top Intel designers recently) if not more.

I think they WILL have something to combat it, if not at the launch of conroe very soon after ( certainly not as late at Q1 2007 )

Just My opinion mind, they wont give up their performance lead just like that
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Knowing about it and actually producing something to compete with it is two different things...

i think intel will win back the enthusiasts this turn.. edit: look how long intel have known they where getting spanked by the A64 and couldnt do anything about it and they spend sooo much more on R&D than AMD
 
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Not that simple. Assuming the deadlines are not pushed back, the AM2 is due somewhere around June and Conroe about 3 months later give or take. The only thing they can use to combat the Conroe is AM2. 6 months is not enough to design/launch a new architecture, they may be able to tweak the AM2, just as Intel tweaked their P4 over the year. But tweaks don't create miracles.
If they make it, great. But unless Intel price their Conroe at stupid price, I also think they'll win some enthusiast support back.
 
We know exactly what AMD are doing - AM2 in June-ish. They can't really suddenly bring something out of nowhere. They aren't going to turn around in Q1 2007 and say "Here is a Conroe beater".

Of course both sides knows exactly what the other is doing via the Roadmaps which detail what each company has planned for the forseeable future. The big shake up was the fact we weren't expecting Conroe to be so impressive, but AMD knew that Intel were producing a Conroe chip, same as Intel knew about AM2 for quite a while.
 
TooNice said:
Not that simple. Assuming the deadlines are not pushed back, the AM2 is due somewhere around June and Conroe about 3 months later give or take. The only thing they can use to combat the Conroe is AM2. 6 months is not enough to design/launch a new architecture, they may be able to tweak the AM2, just as Intel tweaked their P4 over the year. But tweaks don't create miracles.
If they make it, great. But unless Intel price their Conroe at stupid price, I also think they'll win some enthusiast support back.
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Actually if there are no set backs I'd say Conroe is launching June/July.
 
TooNice said:
Not that simple. Assuming the deadlines are not pushed back, the AM2 is due somewhere around June and Conroe about 3 months later give or take. The only thing they can use to combat the Conroe is AM2. 6 months is not enough to design/launch a new architecture, they may be able to tweak the AM2, just as Intel tweaked their P4 over the year. But tweaks don't create miracles.
If they make it, great. But unless Intel price their Conroe at stupid price, I also think they'll win some enthusiast support back.
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There's been a few stories about AMD tagging on an L3 cache to gain some performance, and I guess we may see larger L2 cache's on AM2 sooner rather than later, if Conroe comes in a 2x2mb version AMD will probably follow suit. Its not going to be in time to meet Conroe though.
 
Minstadave said:
There's been a few stories about AMD tagging on an L3 cache to gain some performance, and I guess we may see larger L2 cache's on AM2 sooner rather than later, if Conroe comes in a 2x2mb version AMD will probably follow suit. Its not going to be in time to meet Conroe though.
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I think that will be saved for the 65nm shrink which we'll see hit the market Q1 2007 I think.
 
As many people have said about AMD's production capability, it wouldn't meet Dell's demand. I remember reading an interview with someone from Dell discussing why they weren't going AMD and one of the points raised was that Dell could eat up 100% of AMD's production capacity (leaving none for us..) and it wouldn't be anywhere near enough to supply even their desktop market.

As for Conroe.. an upgrade isn't on the cards for me for a while yet but if Intel were in the lead in value for money, loyalty to AMD wouldn't stop me switching.
Being able to pick up an X2 for cheap might though :p

Might even give AMD a boost to develop something excellent and we can reap the benefits of the competition.
 
NathanE said:
Actually if there are no set backs I'd say Conroe is launching June/July.
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Umm, you seem to be right on July, at least from a quick Google I just did.

I guess that is even worse for AMD then. They don't get much of an early start.
 
v-zero said:
I believe that if were offered contracts for several OEMs then they would make sure to have time to ramp up their FABs and maybe even outsource to other privately owned FABs... Just MHO here, AMD nearly got the Xbox contract so...

Abyway, my main point is that Intel has so much success because they are popular with *** common consumer. That's why they've built loads of FABs and keep increasing that capacity in the end...
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Indeed, they may have gotten the contract, but the amount of chips for the Xbox wouldn't be nearly as many as Dells 30 - 50m a year. It'd be more like 10m.
 
Are these arguments based on benchmarks that are reliable? would it not be better to wait and see some real world ones before saying Conroe is 20% faster than an FX60?. I am not a fanboy but it would seem that most of this is pure speculation and as we know AMD vs Intel "discussions" tend to become heated :D
Phil
 
From what I've read there is no reason to presume that the benchmarks dont give a reasonable expectation of what to expect.

I always wait to see the facts when something is actually available to buy - but its nice to get an insight before hand ;)

These benchmarks should be taken as nothing more than an early indication of what we might be able to expect. AND with regards to Conroe - it does look good.

But we will just have to wait for a release before we can say whether those early benchmarks were a valid representation or not.
 
Minstadave said:
There's been a few stories about AMD tagging on an L3 cache to gain some performance, and I guess we may see larger L2 cache's on AM2 sooner rather than later, if Conroe comes in a 2x2mb version AMD will probably follow suit. Its not going to be in time to meet Conroe though.
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The benefits of L3 cache were pretty big about a decade ago, however the A64 has an on-die memory controller and so I'd be surprised if L3 even makes a dent on benchmarks. It's just another layer of memory management complexity in the CPU, so actually it could hurt latency - which is the sole variable that's been winning the A64 benchmarks these past few years.

In short I'd say it's just tech media speculation. They try to think up ways that AMD could use to remain competitive.
 
seems to me like AMD are a little worse off than i had realised at first.
your garunteed these AMD/INTEL threads allways get people up and in on the convo ,keeps every one active atleast.
 
Oh dear god the amount of FUD flying in this thread is incredible :rolleyes: So many people spouting off rumour and hearsay with absolutly no clue how the market place really is.

AMD are currently the market leaders for the server market, yes thats right LEADERS. Currently Intel have absolutely nothing to answer with in this arena as their Itanium sank without a trace and their Xeons run VERY hot and VERY slow compared to the Opteron. They have survived soley on bigger marketing muscle and their old reputation.

The Conroe is a desktop/laptop designed CPU and that style arch will not make it to the server market until late 2006 or more likely mid 2007.

Dell HAVE sold Opteron based servers in the passed because thats what the big business actually want now - AMD have managed to do the greatest thing, they have managed to open the eyes of the old boys brigade who saw nothing with their Intel blinkers on when it came to the server market.

Dell got squeezed harder by Intel and so they had to drop the Opterons again (I believe) they never had the Opteron advertised on their site but when one of their big suppliers demands Opteron based servers they will make them.

The enthusiast market is peanuts to both AMD and Intel now - the little world that is seen on OCUK is nothing. AMD have been making fantastic desktop CPUs for our home PCs that are faster than Intel since the K7 was released all those years ago in Slot A cartridge form as a 500mhz *beast* (overclockable to at least 700mhz on air as I recall ;)).

However they never really made anything back from Intel until their Opteron was released into the server market where the big business is.

Go check over the Sun Microsystems website - their big push are to sell servers such as the new X2100 - based on Opteron technology running 64bit Solaris. Do you know what this means??? BANKS! Banks finally trust AMD to produce reliable cooler less power consumption hardware - this is a MASSIVE gain to AMD as this has always traditionally been Intels domain as AMD has always been tagged with the "unreliable" badge from their early CPUs (which was down to VIA mobo chipsets more than anything else).

Datacentres within the last 2 years have entirely changed their pricing structure - where you use to simply pay for space you know pay per AMP - this change occured due to newer technology drawing more and more power (thanks Intel) this makes Opterons and incredibly cheaper purchase than the current Xeons.

There are what 3 maybe 4 major suppliers to the server market, HP, Dell, Sun Microsystems and IBM (i am sure I have forgotten one or two) but those are the big boys. Out of those 4 only one does not openly push and sell AMD hardware and that is entirly due to Intels strong arm and almost illegal methods.

Over the last 6 months at the ISP I work at we have only been buying Opteron based hardware and this is a trend seen through out the industry.
 
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