AMD DLSS Equivilent in Spring.

[Mesai]

I don't know, I think I feel a little bit offended by the idea of DLSS or whatever the equivalent will be, being celebrated so much. I know the rationale for it is completely sound but there isn't a lot of rational thought in the pursuit of this hobby for me; it's driven by a desire just to have the best and to hell with trying to justify the time and cost investment. Perhaps it's because it's still a compromise even it is practically undetectable, which seems to go against the grain of chasing the highest end computing and gaming experiences where no compromises is a goal.

I just hope that this doesn’t cause games to become even worse than they currently are, and instead allows companies to focus on gameplay and bug fixing. The tech is still in its infancy but there are other uses that will spawn beyond just upscaling.

We could also see cost reductions or more budget friendly cards as this becomes more mainstream.

It will be interesting to see if DirectX 12 Ultimate performs better on Nvidia or AMD. AMD are certainly hopeful that they might get the edge in ray tracing. "The Infinity Cache also improves the ray-tracing performance by storing the bandwidth-intensive BVH structures that tend to choke the limited cache bandwidth of most GPUs."

Even Nvidia can be seen to be pushing DirectX 12 Ultimate rather than just dlss, they state, "DirectX 12 Ultimate gives developers a large, multi-platform install base of hardware to target and ready-made tools and examples to work from -- all backed by time-saving middleware. This makes game development faster and easier, and enables more developers to add these innovative technologies to their games. Many developers have already crafted next-gen experiences featuring these technologies--there are over 30 DirectX Ray Tracing games shipping or announced--and now with the launch of DirectX 12 Ultimate, adoption of them is set to increase rapidly."

Microsoft Announces DirectX 12 Ultimate: A New Standard for Next-Gen Games, Supported by GeForce RTX (nvidia.com)

I hope that we start seeing more standardised tech implementations, assuming they aren’t worse than the proprietary ones. Nvidia will be tough to beat in the AI space but AMD are proving their worth in everything else.

Next gen cards (hopefully Intels new cards aren’t trash), should be another big jump.

 

[chris85oc]

Imagine thinking this will be better than DLSS which has :

- 2 years + advantage, backed by industry leading AI and heavily invested R&D
- hardware based solution via tensor cores in RTX cards

and yeh, here comes amd guys .. no dedicated hardware for directML, and just starting...

inagine DLSS 1.0 instead, or worse.

 

[Jimbo]

Well I just tried Sapphire Trixx on my 6800XT nitro + oc and it trashed my vga driver big style. I thought I'd broke my card. Set at default and switched all toggles on. Control ran like a dog and then my driver which is latest amd catalyst would not load even after reinstalling. Thank God for DDU uninstaller I say. So hopefully fidelity effects will be better.

 

[Mesai]

Imagine thinking this will be better than DLSS which has :

- 2 years + advantage, backed by industry leading AI and heavily invested R&D
- hardware based solution via tensor cores in RTX cards

and yeh, here comes amd guys .. no dedicated hardware for directML, and just starting...

inagine DLSS 1.0 instead, or worse.

DirectML is more akin to DLSS 2.0, but yes, Nvidia cards will run it better as they have dedicated hardware and more experience in the space.

DirectML has been in the works for a while, and Nvidia have apparently been involved in its development, but I’d be interested to see how it compares to DLSS as I can’t see Nvidia giving away their IP for free.

Well I just tried Sapphire Trixx on my 6800XT nitro + oc and it trashed my vga driver big style. I thought I'd broke my card. Set at default and switched all toggles on. Control ran like a dog and then my driver which is latest amd catalyst would not load even after reinstalling. Thank God for DDU uninstaller I say. So hopefully fidelity effects will be better.

I believe that’s just basic super sampling anyway.

 

[KompuKare]

I don't know, I think I feel a little bit offended by the idea of DLSS or whatever the equivalent will be, being celebrated so much. I know the rationale for it is completely sound but there isn't a lot of rational thought in the pursuit of this hobby for me; it's driven by a desire just to have the best and to hell with trying to justify the time and cost investment. Perhaps it's because it's still a compromise even it is practically undetectable, which seems to go against the grain of chasing the highest end computing and gaming experiences where no compromises is a goal.

Well, isn't the real rational that nobody no matter how deep their pockets can render raytraced at 8K so for the big spenders (on 8K screens) they'll get something which is worse than native 8K but has the occasional bits of brilliance where it looks better than 4K (albeit heavily AA 4K) so they can justifiy buying a 8K screen?

Anyway, way back when (just before Nvidia marketting started pushing DLSS) didn't the PCMR look down on console peasants with their fancy upscalling techniques and consider those to be fake resolutions?

 

[d_brennen]

Imagine thinking this will be better than DLSS which has :

- 2 years + advantage, backed by industry leading AI and heavily invested R&D
- hardware based solution via tensor cores in RTX cards

and yeh, here comes amd guys .. no dedicated hardware for directML, and just starting...

inagine DLSS 1.0 instead, or worse.

You missed some "plus" points of DLSS:

*Proprietary
*Has to be implemented per game at development time
*Implemented in few games
*Implemented in fewer actually good games

Unless you have skin in the game, you should be hoping for something that benefits the whole industry

Even if AMDs implementation doesn't match DLSS2 out of the gate, it'll be another option and hopefully, at some point soon, consign DLSS to the same pit as PhysX

 

[Nexus18]

Yup the more options the better!

My only concern is that game developers see this as an opportunity to spend less time optimising performance for the PC versions..... After all why spend time and resources doing that when we have these options out the gate that already add 20+ fps....

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Well, isn't the real rational that nobody no matter how deep their pockets can render raytraced at 8K so for the big spenders (on 8K screens) they'll get something which is worse than native 8K but has the occasional bits of brilliance where it looks better than 4K (albeit heavily AA 4K) so they can justifiy buying a 8K screen?

Anyway, way back when (just before Nvidia marketting started pushing DLSS) didn't the PCMR look down on console peasants with their fancy upscalling techniques and consider those to be fake resolutions?

If you can afford an 8k screen you don't need to justify any of your purchases

You have remembered correctly PCMR did use to look down on upscaling and sub 60fps.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

Imagine thinking this will be better than DLSS which has :

- 2 years + advantage, backed by industry leading AI and heavily invested R&D
- hardware based solution via tensor cores in RTX cards

and yeh, here comes amd guys .. no dedicated hardware for directML, and just starting...

inagine DLSS 1.0 instead, or worse.

That's what they said before the release of Ryzen.

Intel were an industry leader and had 11 years experience building their Core technology.

and yeh, here comes amd guys .. on the verge of bankruptcy, and just starting with a whole new architecture in its infancy...

Don't underestimate the underdog.

 

[henson0115]

nvidia provided microsoft with resources and samples to get directml working so i would say dlss is nvidia temp solution until directml is in full swing at a guess. directlml should save nvidia paying game developers how much money? bottom line they are in it for the money so if directml makes them more then dlss say good by to dlss.

quite like many other technologies they have slowly and silently killed off.

 

[Dontrocktheboat]

"We will have full stock of Navi, working DLSS, and Usable RT by summer. Including new "rage mode 2"." F.Azor

 

[chris85oc]

That's what they said before the release of Ryzen.

Intel were an industry leader and had 11 years experience building their Core technology.

and yeh, here comes amd guys .. on the verge of bankruptcy, and just starting with a whole new architecture in its infancy...

Don't underestimate the underdog.

You mean like how people ‘underestimated’ their RT performance? As in.. they expected it to be **** and guess what? It was ****.

Too bad the whole pc parts market is ****** right now cause of miners / covid / scalpers and everything. PC gaming is dead in 2021, we’ll see in 2022 maybe...

ps: comparing to intel when intel sat on their asses while nvidia has been innovating with each new generation. Try again

 

[CuriousTomCat]

ps: comparing to intel when intel sat on their asses while nvidia has been innovating with each new generation. Try again

1st gen RTX was a disappointment. AMD didn't have anything to compete with so Nvidia pretty much sat on their asses with RTX.

Then Nvidia heard RDNA2 was going to be really good so Nvidia tried much harder.

It almost sounds like you don't want competition. I want both companies to succeed.

 

[fs123]

Love how the Nvidia fanboys are already trying their best to put down AMD's attempt before it is even launched. When it arrives then you can say what you want if it's crap but why cry about something that hasn't even been shown yet?
DLSS is properietary so people should be happy that there will be an alternative that can be used by more users including those who do not have RT capable cards.

An interesting tweet by a graphics artist :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1356527635346518016

 

[JohnG7]

What does FS stand for (is the 1st word "Full"?

 

[Mesai]

Love how the Nvidia fanboys are already trying their best to put down AMD's attempt before it is even launched. When it arrives then you can say what you want if it's crap but why cry about something that hasn't even been shown yet?
DLSS is properietary so people should be happy that there will be an alternative that can be used by more users including those who do not have RT capable cards.

An interesting tweet by a graphics artist :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1356527635346518016

It's not AMD tech, it's Microsoft tech.

If it's able to function at DLSS levels then I don't see why NVIDIA will continue with DLSS, however, they should still be better at it until AMD can add ML cores.

 

[fs123]

It's not AMD tech, it's Microsoft tech.

If it's able to function at DLSS levels then I don't see why NVIDIA will continue with DLSS, however, they should still be better at it until AMD can add ML cores.

This thread is about AMD's competitor to DLSS. It doesn't matter who developed the underlying technology.

 

[Steampunk]

I don't know, I think I feel a little bit offended by the idea of DLSS or whatever the equivalent will be, being celebrated so much. I know the rationale for it is completely sound but there isn't a lot of rational thought in the pursuit of this hobby for me; it's driven by a desire just to have the best and to hell with trying to justify the time and cost investment. Perhaps it's because it's still a compromise even it is practically undetectable, which seems to go against the grain of chasing the highest end computing and gaming experiences where no compromises is a goal.

Everything about real-time graphics is about clever tricks to get the most out of whatever hardware is available. As long as it's not humanly detectable, it's a legitimate performance-enhancing technique, which leaves more resources available for faster framerates and improved graphics.

Otherwise you might as well complain about techniques like polygon culling. Sure, there's no need to draw the polygons you can't see, but surely it's a compromise that goes against the highest computing and gaming experiences? In fact, not wasting computing cycles on things you don't need, or that a person can't detect is exactly all about freeing up resources to make the gaming experience better in the form of higher performance or improved graphical fidelity where it matters the most.

DLSS-type upscaling is one of a long line of compromises (an optional one at that), but one that is worth making for the overall benefit of the experience, and the really clever compromises are invisible to the player. If you didn't have technologies like this, you'd be forced to perform other compromises such as lowering resolution, graphical fidelity or accepting lower framerates in order to get a playable performance, and those are much more detectable compromises.

High quality upscaling is just another optional tool in the game player's arsenal to get the highest experience out of the hardware available. It's a pretty good tool that has a big impact, and has progressed to being undetectable by people, so it's no wonder it's being pushed as a good thing. In lieu of several magnitudes more processing power in your GPU (which developers will always seek to use up anyway), it's a good optimising technique that shortcuts us to getting better results than the hardware can otherwise provide.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

This thread is about AMD's competitor to DLSS. It doesn't matter who developed the underlying technology.

AMD don't have a DLSS competitor.

 

[chris85oc]

1st gen RTX was a disappointment. AMD didn't have anything to compete with so Nvidia pretty much sat on their asses with RTX.

Then Nvidia heard RDNA2 was going to be really good so Nvidia tried much harder.

It almost sounds like you don't want competition. I want both companies to succeed.

nvidia sat on their asses when they brought raytracing / dlss in gaming to consumer cards .. when their competition didnt have any? What?

I think you’re confused. Sitting on their ass would have meant not innovating at all. So no RT/dlss since their competition had none and they were also behind in raster.

1st of anything will be a disappointment with ‘gamers’ having unrealistic expectations, not understanding raytracing, what it implies, how demanding it is hardware wise.