• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

AMD Halts Optimizations for Mantle API

Kaapstad said:
For a long time in BF4 it was difficult to compare Mantle to DX11 as the former had terrible problems with memory usage that made it difficult to run on my 290Xs. This is something that the game dev should never have let out the door.
Click to expand...

Yes I get your point Kaap. Its intention was a positive option as when it worked you could see the benefit especially if future games utilised it from the beginning. Unfortunately BF4 was a turd on release but would have offered a great comparison if the other issues had not got in the way.
 
With all the talk of Mantle being used in LiquidVR, how confident are we that AMD will release LiquidVR?
Will it just remain in BETA until they get bored of it and hand it over to someone else (they didn't have a massive interest in 3D did they)? Not that this will be bad if what they hand over is good.
Or will they keep pushing it and get in into 2 or 3 games? (meanwhile Nvidia will push their solution and get it into 8 or 9)
 
Thinking about it, if DX12 releases with Win10 in 10 days time, does that mean it will have been released before Vulkan (which some say is just Mantle with a name change)?

Hasn't it been like 18 months since the Mantle pre-Alpha or whatever it was?
And it's not out yet?
But DX12 could be in 10 days?
Either Microsoft work faster/rougher than AMD/Khronos group or maybe DX12 was already being developed when Mantle was started?

Will being first to market affect market share down the line?
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
Thinking about it, if DX12 releases with Win10 in 10 days time, does that mean it will have been released before Vulkan (which some say is just Mantle with a name change)?

Hasn't it been like 18 months since the Mantle pre-Alpha or whatever it was?
And it's not out yet?
But DX12 could be in 10 days?
Either Microsoft work faster/rougher than AMD/Khronos group or maybe DX12 was already being developed when Mantle was started?

Will being first to market affect market share down the line?
Click to expand...

Dx12 will have a much higher market share than vulkan anyway because MS will muscle their way in with devs, plus DX12 on both xbone and windows will make it easier for cross platform that way

Vulkan will mainly be used on PC games that are only interested in windows/linux/steamos I would imagine
 
Mauller said:
Also android and maybe even the PS4 and Next nintendo. It is also not limited to Windows 10 etc.
Click to expand...

I wasn't really considering games being made for mobile as being likely to be cross platform to PC, yes OpenGL will continue to be the major api for mobile but how many of those games will get ported to PC?

Ps4 already has a low level api, so unlikely

Windows 10 is pretty much a nonissue as its free

Pretty much all the major games are going to be DX12, I cant see a huge driver to also supporting vulkan apart from steamos, but as I say I think only PC only games will bother with steam
 
Last edited:
a handful of decent games at best, I wouldn't call that "quite strong", it certainly has room to grow and I hope it does, but I'm cautious about that actually happening beyond valves own efforts
 
andybird123 said:
I wasn't really considering games being made for mobile as being likely to be cross platform to PC, yes OpenGL will continue to be the major api for mobile but how many of those games will get ported to PC?

Ps4 already has a low level api, so unlikely

Windows 10 is pretty much a nonissue as its free

Pretty much all the major games are going to be DX12, I cant see a huge driver to also supporting vulkan apart from steamos, but as I say I think only PC only games will bother with steam
Click to expand...

Xbox one has its own api already. and adding vulkan support won't increase the size of the driver by much, considering it is just a dumb abstraction layer. like with mantle and dx12 the driver will be thin and small.

plus vulkan on ps4 would allow greater cross platform with pc etc.
 
Why would Sony want developers to go cross platform?
DX12 delivers MS a benefit on both platforms, there is zero reason for Sony to adopt vulkan.

Ps2 and 3 both ran modified versions of OpenGL, but they weren't similar enough to allow cross platform development, if Sony was interested in CP they would have adopted vanilla OGL

DX12 is an actual upgrade from DX11.X (the xbone api), but developers say there would be no advantage to mantle on PS4, so the same must be true of vulkan... If anything I would imagine vulkan would run marginally worse than straight mantle as there's extra compatibility coding for vulkan
 
Last edited:
GoogalyMoogaly said:
With all the talk of Mantle being used in LiquidVR, how confident are we that AMD will release LiquidVR?
Will it just remain in BETA until they get bored of it and hand it over to someone else (they didn't have a massive interest in 3D did they)? Not that this will be bad if what they hand over is good.
Or will they keep pushing it and get in into 2 or 3 games? (meanwhile Nvidia will push their solution and get it into 8 or 9)
Click to expand...

They already seemed to have been looking at outside gaming for VR uses. There is already a collaboration with GE here:

http://vrfocus.com/archives/16911/kite-lightning-announces-neuro-vr-experience-with-amd/

http://www.roadtovr.com/ge-marks-500m-subsea-research-project-launch-kite-lightning-vr-experience/

GE has $146 billion revenues a year,and they are investing $500 milliion into a VR project.

There was also noise about medical uses of AMD VR tech,and then there is a collaboration with CAA and Adobe in Hollywood:

http://fortune.com/2015/06/29/amd-caa-vr/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Artists_Agency

Another move into classroom uses for VR:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/2599294
http://www.eschoolnews.com/2015/07/14/virtual-reality-solution-924/
 
Last edited:
andybird123 said:
Why would Sony want developers to go cross platform?
DX12 delivers MS a benefit on both platforms, there is zero reason for Sony to adopt vulkan.

Ps2 and 3 both ran modified versions of OpenGL, but they weren't similar enough to allow cross platform development, if Sony was interested in CP they would have adopted vanilla OGL

DX12 is an actual upgrade from DX11.X (the xbone api), but developers say there would be no advantage to mantle on PS4, so the same must be true of vulkan... If anything I would imagine vulkan would run marginally worse than straight mantle as there's extra compatibility coding for vulkan
Click to expand...

they use modified OpenGL because it has no driver level abstractions. i.e memory managment, rendering control. etc.

But if the ps4 had vulkan, then there is a higher chance of more games being released on the console. yes sony want exclusives, but cross platform games make up the greatest number of games on any console. so if an api works across more platforms then more developers are likely to release their title on said platform.

the only major upgrade for DX12 on console is a change in the ESRAM module, but that could have been added to the oridinal api. they only decided to harmonise for cross platform and to get a greater number of games using DX12 on pc.
 
No, I still don't follow, ps4 massively outsells xbone, so a developer would have to be mental to not release on ps4 "because api", so again, what drives Sony to support vulkan? Nothing

Though looking at some dev quotes, DX12 is a performance upgrade for xbone on top of the esram update

The only comments I can find for vulkan on ps4 is that it could replace gnmx, the high level api on ps4, but not the low level one, which is what most of the big games will be using, which again suggests that vulkans performance on ps4 would not be as good as the native api
 
Last edited:
andybird123 said:
The only comments I can find for vulkan on ps4 is that it could replace gnmx, the high level api on ps4, but not the low level one, which is what most of the big games will be using, which again suggests that vulkans performance on ps4 would not be as good as the native api
Click to expand...

But that is no differnent to DX12 on the Xbox one. Unless they use GCN specific extensions in their Xbox one DX12 rendering pathway, it wont perform to its best. no different to if Vulkan was on ps4 and used GCN specific extensions for the ps4 rendering pathway.

It just means that the majority of the rendering code can be cut and shut between platforms. with platform specific optimisations thrown in when needed. which is how Vulkan works. And how mantle was made to work.
 
Strange comments considering the threads when people were talking about mantle suddenly developers are worthy enough...

;)
 
Th0nt said:
Strange comments considering the threads when people were talking about mantle suddenly developers are worthy enough...

;)
Click to expand...

isnt that kind of the point, when developers who we know are usually very pro-mantle say "there's no point bringing this to ps4", isn't that like pretty much the worst case scenario?

the two people who might turn a blind eye and advise such a thing, but no, even they say PS4's API is already as good/better than mantle or vulkan and thus no point in either mantle or vulkan trying to replace it for top tier games
 
Andy got a point they also said PS4's api is very compatible already with porting over to mantle so there literally no damn reason to put mantle in there......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom