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AMD & nVidia at it again over Batman

Soldato
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More fun & games over at h-e-x-u-s.

http://www.*****.net/content/item.php?item=20991

Some entertaining exchanges between Huddy and Weinand. It gets really amusing when Edios' legal team get involved...

Edit: I really should add my opinion I guess, which is nVidia quite clearly have done everything they can to prevent AMD working alongside them to enable AA in Batman.
 
Whats the bottom line then? :p

I can't be bothered to traul through the slapping of handbags :D

Well, this I guess...

AMD received an email dated Sept 29th at 5:22pm from Mr. Lee Singleton General Manager at Eidos Game Studios who stated that Eidos’ legal department is preventing Eidos from allowing ATI cards to run in-game antialiasing in Batman Arkham Asylum due to NVIDIA IP ownership issues over the antialiasing code, and that they are not permitted to remove the vendor ID filter.
 
Lol so Edios are attempting to side step the issue. Who owns the pants in that relationship?

Edios are simply attempting to stay out of it because any problem means they may not make back the development costs.. I'd like to be a fly on the wall of Edios' next game budgeting and if they make the game a single vendor too.

Freddie Laker told Richard Branson to always publicly call any dirty tricks their competitors (BA) are attempting. Sounds like the same tactic here.
 
Gets interesting, seems nvidia are lying their asses off about the aa in batman:

Batman AA is not our property. It is owned by Eidos. It is up to Eidos to decide the fate of a feature that AMD refused to contribute too and QA for their customers, not NVIDIA. -lars

I have taken legal advice from our general council who have advised us not to pursue a route which involves changing code that nVidia wrote, I am not prepared to go into any further details and share privileged information. We are working very hard to find a solution for ATI so please respect our position in this situation. - Lee , Eidos

So if it is code nvidia wrote then its obviously theirs, yet this lars guy seems to think its not. :confused:
 
rotflmao.

I've been in a situation where our business partner has screwed us, I can tell you that Edios staff will be absolutely livid but it could have been a commandment from up high purely based on the strategic bullcrap and bean counters :D
 
I don't really understand the problem. Its really simple to force AA or even setup a gaming profile for Batman through Catalyst. I've been playing with 8xAA since I got my 5870!
 
I don't really understand the problem. Its really simple to force AA or even setup a gaming profile for Batman through Catalyst. I've been playing with 8xAA since I got my 5870!

It isn't as good as in game AA though, that is forcing the AA via the CCC and the performance hit is more significant as far as I'm aware.

The 5870 just powers through it.
 
its pretty obvious and plainly simple, you could use those same AA routines, WITH NO ISSUES AT ALL in the demo, final code was changed with the specific intention of removing the ability for ATi to run the code. The code was working, there was no QA issues, there was no testing needed, it worked, Nvidia thought they'd done enough to prevent ATi using AA in the demo, they were wrong, they didn't improve AA the changed the code only to stop ATi cards being able to run it.

That Eidos obviously signed something to allow Nvidia that level of control is disturbing to be honest, but that Nvidia constantly lie about their nasty little tactics is just so much worse.

Hell they'd make more sales by just flat out admiting, yeah, we paid them to make the game better on Nvidia hardware, we have more cash(not true but they can say it) they can truthfully say they pay more money to developers, they can truthfully say they will continue to do this for years to come. Telling people they will constantly try to remove features for ATi users, will only persuade more people to buy Nvidia.

That leaves two options, they are stupid, or the far more likely option, they publically admit thats what they do and ATi/AMD have a serious serious basis for starting an anti-competition lawsuit. So either Nvidia are so utterly stupid its almost impossible to believe(not completely impossible though :p ) , or even they think what they are doing is borderline illegal and are doing their best to play down the whole issue.
 
I don't really understand the problem. Its really simple to force AA or even setup a gaming profile for Batman through Catalyst. I've been playing with 8xAA since I got my 5870!

It's not an engineering problem, it's a commercial/legal based issue.
 
I don't really understand the problem. Its really simple to force AA or even setup a gaming profile for Batman through Catalyst. I've been playing with 8xAA since I got my 5870!

Forcing AA through Catalyst uses a brute force method where all edges are anti-aliased, even bits that don't need to be, hence a relatively large impact on performance. The in game option on the other hand uses selective AA, which has little performance impact.

The reason you probably don't care is because you have a 5870, which can just muscle its way through these problems!
 
It seems to me that NVIDIA haven't written anything, if you can change the VendorID of an ATi card and 'it just works' then what have they done other than write a hack to disable it on ATi cards.

Huddy has had permission and has published the email exchange between himself and the game publishers and he guesses that the 'bog standard' DX AA is being used, which just confirms what I have stated in the paragraph above, or is there more to this than what I am seeing?

Not NVIDIA bashing just don't understand exactly what 'Shens' NVIDIA have been up to? I've no doubt that they have though, sigh...

J.
 
It seems to me that NVIDIA haven't written anything, if you can change the VendorID of an ATi card and 'it just works' then what have they done other than write a hack to disable it on ATi cards.

Huddy has had permission and has published the email exchange between himself and the game publishers and he guesses that the 'bog standard' DX AA is being used, which just confirms what I have stated in the paragraph above, or is there more to this than what I am seeing?

Not NVIDIA bashing just don't understand exactly what 'Shens' NVIDIA have been up to? I've no doubt that they have though, sigh...

Might want to look up a few posts


I have taken legal advice from our general council who have advised us not to pursue a route which involves changing code that nVidia wrote, I am not prepared to go into any further details and share privileged information. We are working very hard to find a solution for ATI so please respect our position in this situation. - Lee , Eidos
 
TBH you can't know for deffinate that it has no issues at all... the multisampling path was written for and tested on nVidia hardware exclusively... it wouldn't be good Q&A to then just enable it on ATI cards without proper testing... which generally involves the card developer...

There seems to be some crossed meanings as well... ATI say "was no refusal on AMD’s part to enable in game AA IP in a timely manner" which I take to mean... ATI had no problem with Eidos enabling an unsupported AA path on ATI hardware rather than ATI saying they were ready to step upto the bat and help with a vendor specific implementation... as noted the branch of the game engine they are using has no native AA path.

Whether ATI would really have got to implement their own path had they stepped up is something I couldn't answer - but it doesn't even sound like they made any attempt in doing so and has been my past experience with ATI and game development.
 
It isn't as good as in game AA though, that is forcing the AA via the CCC and the performance hit is more significant as far as I'm aware.

The 5870 just powers through it.

It's not an engineering problem, it's a commercial/legal based issue.

Forcing AA through Catalyst uses a brute force method where all edges are anti-aliased, even bits that don't need to be, hence a relatively large impact on performance. The in game option on the other hand uses selective AA, which has little performance impact.

The reason you probably don't care is because you have a 5870, which can just muscle its way through these problems!

Yeh, I understand what nVidia are doing is morally wrong and I definitely don't agree with it.

I didn't realise the performance hit with forced AA was different to that of in game AA.

Indeed, I'm not seeing any dips below 60FPS with 8xAA forced, as you mentioned this is probably due to the 5870's sheer power.
 
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