AMD® Phenom™ II X6 and Intel® Core™ i7 Debate

[wannabedamned]

Sorry to be so blunt and in your face Big.Wayne but

WHAT APPS ARE YOUR CLIENTS WANTING TO RUN

As all the benchmarks in the world cant point you in the right direction if you dont know this teeny tiny thing, and its been asked several times.

if the software isnt hexcore optimized then buying the hex wouldnt see the gains people are claiming. And the I7's possible 10+% performance improvement that's evident in a lot of software could be worth while in a business environment.

Plus the 6gb over 4gb would also be an improvement for a rendering system(obviously you could add another 2gb to your AMD specs)

 

[Jokester]

It would be interesting to know how many UK retailers / Review sites this involves aswell, hence they're bias towards supporting Intel even when they had inferior products to AMD:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1724387/red-faced-dell-fined-cooking-books

Me also suspects easyrider is getting a rebate too, (lol - only playin mate)

Except, as Easy posted above, during that time period, he was using AMD!

 

[easyrider]

Except, as Easy posted above, during that time period, he was using AMD!

Yes,

I generally buy the fastest hardware out at the time.

That's one of the reasons I ditched my Intel rig in 2006 for an AMD opteron 170.

Likewise when C2D hit I dropped the AMD opteron 170 rig and went for a E6600 and clocked it to 3.6ghz.

People seem to forget that I couldn't care less who makes what.

P.S I have highlighted the AMD bits in bold not for your benefit Jokester but for people with no idea how I operate.

 

[PhoenixUK]

Sorry to be so blunt and in your face Big.Wayne but
WHAT APPS ARE YOUR CLIENTS WANTING TO RUN

As all the benchmarks in the world cant point you in the right direction if you dont know this teeny tiny thing, and its been asked several times.

if the software isnt hexcore optimized then buying the hex wouldnt see the gains people are claiming. And the I7's possible 10+% performance improvement that's evident in a lot of software could be worth while in a business environment.

Plus the 6gb over 4gb would also be an improvement for a rendering system(obviously you could add another 2gb to your AMD specs)

I Don't think that's the case here mate, I mean, if the company uses an app that's 10% faster on i7 and they need that extra speed and can afford it then I see absolutely no point why not buying it, would probably even encourage them for the extra money. However most people aren't doing this for business ( or their business doesn't need something as fast as an i7 - in example, I know some print/design companies that use software which benefits from i7 by large margin but they don't do any heavy renders 8hrs a day to justify that cost and guess what, they still run C2D duals, because it's all they need ) and hardly do an odd render every now and then or do some avarage photoshop stuff as a hobby - that's where they won't notice that extra 10 or even 20% and then as much as faster it is on a benchmark, they won't be able to tell the difference and because of that, even something as little as 100quid could have had a better use elsewhere, even if they can afford it, there is no point in paying extra for the extra power that they DO NOT need.


I think even Wayne is pushing this a bit too hard but then again, I believe that what he is trying to say is what I just did.
IF you're going to notice the difference and need that extra and can afford it - then sure, get it without hesitating, don't even think about it just buy the best you can if you need it.

However, if you're just paying extra just for the fact that you seen some benchmarks when in fact a cheaper system will be just as good for your use as the more expensive one ( meaning you won't use all of it's power or will use it so rarely that's is insignificant or they won't notice the difference ) then obviously I see no reason why spending even a 50quid extra.

 

[RizlaKing]

Fact is tho there isn't a thing in this thread that isn't in a lot of other places that people wanting to make a cpu purchase would look at in the normal process of deciding. In fact in most places this debate has been had and in a much better spirit and appraoch then this forum. Unless we have the exact specifics on what the client wants to use the systems for there can be no definitive answer and the reality is that either of these cpu's would be good for anyone in general and more specialised use to the point they wouldn't really notice the performance difference. Any client that is able too tell is highly unlikely to not be specific themselves in the consulting phase of having someone build the systems for them.

 

[gareth170]

@ BW

another thing to think about.

having x6 is good because if the app or whatever only uses 2 or 4 cores you'll still have 4 or 2 cores free for running background tasks or do 2 or 3 tasks at the same time without losing performance.

 

[james.miller]

Yes,

I generally buy the fastest hardware out at the time.

That's one of the reasons I ditched my Intel rig in 2006 for an AMD opteron 170.

Likewise when C2D hit I dropped the AMD opteron 170 rig and went for a E6600 and clocked it to 3.6ghz.

People seem to forget that I couldn't care less who makes what.

P.S I have highlighted the AMD bits in bold not for your benefit Jokester but for people with no idea how I operate.

people haven't forgot, it just isn't important. it's the lengths you go to to promote whatever gear you happen to be running at the time that grinds people down. I mean come on, you come out with some corkers alright......

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=16880829&postcount=39

Nope all maxed out

x6's are nice cpu's but encoding i7 is king end of i'm afraid

6 FPS with 400mhz and 2 extra pyhsical cores.

Show's how poor the AMD is in all honesty

Next

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=16984052&postcount=146

...People need to chill Not Me. and stop defending mediocre products as the people with the last laugh are not us its the companies making billions of pounds in profit.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=16881588&postcount=41

Hardly

I'm sick of reading reviews where they show encoding not full on all cores.

Its simple enough.

I managed it in all of 30 seconds to max out my cores.....they couldn't?

Those benchies show the mediocre platform of the old amd architechture

6 cores 400mhz more speed and hardly a boost in encoding.

They must have the wrong settings / setup if all cores are not getting used in handbrake.

BTW Its not trolling it cutting to the facts for people making judgements on buying new hardware.

Fact is and the bottom line is. I encode and video edit I get more raw cpu power from i7

If I didn't I would be running an AMD rig.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=16883056&postcount=53

I post when I see nonsense posts by AMD fanatics who clearly cannot admit that the HEX core AMD cpu's are old hat with a 2 extra cores.

Doesn't make them faster than a i7 quad core with HT at the same clock speeds.

I read enough guff in this forum especially cpu's by people who clearly have no clue.

Prove me worng and I will admit it.

 

[easyrider]

people haven't forgot, it just isn't important. it's the lengths you go to to promote whatever gear you happen to be running at the time that grinds people down. I mean come on, you come out with some corkers alright......

And I will speak the same of AMD if Bulldozer rock's

If BD rock's and people are suggesting buying INTEL at certain price brackets I'll explain why buying INTEL is not a good idea.

People want the fastest KIT for their budget. Unless they are building a Home Server or Media Centre or something or other...

With 2 extra cores the X6 should be streets ahead.

But its not so in essence its not that great really if you think about.

Its on par just with a Quad CPU.

Bulldozer I hope will shake up the Architecture as bolting on cores is not the way to win the performance battle.

 

[james.miller]

And I will speak the same of AMD if Bulldozer rock's

again, you're missing the point.

With 2 extra cores the X6 should be streets ahead.

But its not so in essence its not that great really if you think about.

Its on par just with a Quad CPU.

well, so? what does it matter? it's the end result that's important, not how they get there. the end result is a level of power consumption and performance that's mostly level pegging with the i7's, therefor the single core performance is somewhat irrelevant. If i were building with single threaded apps in mind then that may be a different story, but i dont. I'm trying to think of a decent example, but i guess thats like comparing ati cores to nvidia cores. end result is more important and all that.

Bulldozer I hope will shake up the Architecture as bolting on cores is not the way to win the performance battle.

it clearly is where multi threaded apps are concerned, because AMD have managed to drop those hex cores at a price lower the i7's and i bet they're making more profit from them too.

Actually i find your last statement a bit odd considering you seemed quite impressed with how well the 980x scaled in performance compared to a 920 because of those extra cores....

 

[zoomee]

Yes,

I generally buy the fastest hardware out at the time.

That's one of the reasons I ditched my Intel rig in 2006 for an AMD opteron 170.

Likewise when C2D hit I dropped the AMD opteron 170 rig and went for a E6600 and clocked it to 3.6ghz.

People seem to forget that I couldn't care less who makes what.

P.S I have highlighted the AMD bits in bold not for your benefit Jokester but for people with no idea how I operate.

lol and you obviously can't tell when someone is joking (HINT: Smilies usually denote a bit of a wink wink nod nod ). So judging by the above comments - you don't care what you have as long as its the best, thats not what this thread is about - 980X is the best, no arguing there - how come you don't have one of them? ahhhhh, the cost, see thats the point we are making with 1055T v's i7 920 dude. Get my point? probably not - £100 might not be much to you for +6% or -5% here and there, but for me and plenty of others it is mate! - man thats two pairs of shoes for my liccle un's (which they'll grow out of in a week! )

My point in that post was about how you'll find tons of suppliers backing Intel even when AMD had the better product, for reasons coming to light recently of course oh, and a friendly 'poke' at you dude, of course I know you ain't getting no rebates lol. If we don't keep up the humour in this thread things get too serious as pointed out above

 

[zoomee]

@ BW

another thing to think about.

having x6 is good because if the app or whatever only uses 2 or 4 cores you'll still have 4 or 2 cores free for running background tasks or do 2 or 3 tasks at the same time without losing performance.

I agree with this - dedicating 4 cores to 2 VM's for example, and having two free for tasks to run on a PC is what makes a 6 core CPU better than a 4 core one - no benchies will show this (I think)

 

[Big.Wayne]

Hello all

Sorry for the delay in making an update, the past two weeks has been somewhat "hectic" . . . It's also been good to have a break from the forums and this thread but hopefully everything has calmed down now and I can push towards my conclusions . . .

Thanks to james.miller and zoomee for making supportive posts, in a raging storm it was nice to see a few people not misunderstanding the nature of my posts!

My client-contact has been away sailing in Sweden for the summer hols so I am awaiting their return to get some more specifics regarding software and apps, I had "assumed" that a fleet of machines which were meant for "Encoding/Re-Encoding & Rendering Duties" and were meant to "last two or three years" would not be specifically "advantaged" on one piece of software over another? . . i.e most good multi-threaded software would be "updated" to handle as many cores as were available? . . .

I did mention before that I would keep posting review sites data "till the cows come home" but funnily enough it seems I've exhausted Google-Net of all meaningful "Facts" so I will be picking one or two data-sets for further analysis when I get time and will post up a few graphs in the near future . . .

Interestingly since this thread began it seems Intel® are planning a nice "price-slash" on the Core™ i7 series which is just what the doctor ordered and I think everyone would agree is welcome news all around . . .

Technical stuff aside and onto the subject of debating, even though this thread has been diluted with a lot of off topic "shannanigan" it does mark a small step in the right directions for debates in the future . . . even though a lot of people have missed the point and laid into me . . . compared to "discussions" in the past the fact that this thread remains open and hasn't been locked shows there is a small measure of success!

[off topic]

Thoughts, Debates, Philosophy and Logic

What some people new to debating need to understand is an "argument" is external to a person and no matter what you think or say about a person, what their motives or agenda is, this has no bearing on the argument itself . . i.e the argument is still "valid" even if I personally was the CEO of AMD® and stood to personally benefit from increased sales of their products the question of "value" of the current Intel® products is still perfectly valid . . . this may seem strange to some people but if you do your homework on "debating" you will hopefully understand where some people have made a mistake in this thread by focusing on me personally or if this thread is real or not . . . even if I didn't have any clients and was totally making the scenario up the argument is still valid!

Another thing I would like to say is that if you ever see anyone say "prove me wrong" don't waste your breath on them . . . it is "never" up to anyone else to prove somebody wrong but instead it is up to the individual to "Prove themselves right" . . . somebody asking you to Prove them wrong is a kinda aggressive way of them asking you to teach them . . . If I did happen to know something that someone else didn't know I wouldn't be compelled to help them if they were not polite . . .

On the subject of negative posts, personal attacks and criticism . . . what somebody else says about you "reveals" more about the attacker i.e. what they say about you in spite says more about how they actually are! . . secondly the more aggressive and negative somebody is towards you and tries to "justify" their attacks on you the more you know that person is unhappy or discontent with their personal circumstance and are trying to "dump" their toxic waste on you because its too much for them, do not be tricked into accepting this and simply ignore it as it has nothing at all to do with you personally, especially if you have been polite and courteous, just walk away . . .

I must admit my discovery of Philosophy is an interesting to me personally as Overclocking ever was and I suspect my presence on these forums will slowly diminish in the coming years as I begin to pay more attention to the complex system we call the world and not just the complex system we call the computer, it's been a great learning curve and I'm grateful to the many people over the years who have taken the time out their lives to educate me and I have tried my best to return this favour . . . give and take so to speak . . . I have no problem with any person who posts on this forum and I hope in time people will feel the same way about me, I only ever wanted to help and I apologize if my "questions" have caused a small handful of people to become agitated . . . as my tutor often tells me:

"The problem is not with the questions or the questioner but with the Falsehood of the answers I have been living"

Thanks for reading and have a nice day!

P.S: For anyone interested in improving their debating skills I highly recommend you read and understand the following:

Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate