AMD Radeon R9 285 with Tonga GPU pictured

[TheRealDeal]

I get the impression from your post you design and manufacturer bleeding edge GPU's from your garden shed then?

It's just common sense tbh. It's called progression just like Maxwell with Nvidia, amd are not standing still. I am not saying what he said is 100% correct as we don't know the fact's yet but i will say it's close to the truth.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I get the impression from your post you design and manufacturer bleeding edge GPU's from your garden shed then?

I get the impression from your post that you lack the understanding of the subject matter at hand and as such decided to mock what you didn't understand rather than ask questions and get answers.

Tahiti/GCN1.0 is a design that was locked out and done architecturally some 3 years ago. We have had several GCN 1.1 designs since then, without checking I would guess the 7790 is at least 18 months old. But you believe AMD will spend what will likely be in the region of 3-4million on the masks and maybe 20-30million on 12-18 months of work to tape out a "new" GCN1.0 design with two features added?

You think you would take the basic building blocks of GCN1.1 with true audio which you have, and randomly add two of the features to the old architecture rather than merely use the ALREADY FINISHED work of using the GCN 1.1 architecture. It's pure nonsense, it would take MORE work to get trueaudio and other features added to an old design, than use the work done on GCN 1.1 in which trueaudio is already a feature.

The idea of adding a couple of GCN 1.1 architecture features to the old features is quite literally absurd, it's beyond the realms of possible. You would literally be talking about peeing millions of dollars down the drain to add features to an older less good architecture when the newer architecture is already done and has those features.

There is zero chance of Tonga having features from newer architectures yet being based on Tahiti... none at all, literally 0%, not 0.3%, not 5%, there is no chance.

The worst case is that Tonga is a GCN 1.1 architecture product with superior power efficiency and performance, a chip that is between the 7700/290x(both GCN 1.1) and aimed at roughly 280 performance levels.

Ideally the new chips would be GCN 2.0 but it all depends where they've done what work. They've been working on GCN2.0 chips for 20-14nm designs and the processes are delayed so they are releasing something new at 28nm. Is it cheaper for them to port their 20nm gcn2.0 design to 28nm, or just take the building blocks and work they have with GCN 1.1 on the 28nm process and build up a midrange and maybe new high end chip towards the end of the year.

It depends when work on Tonga started, it might have been started 3-6 months before GCN 2.0 was ready and the parts coming maybe 3-6 months after Tonga are GCN 2.0 based.

 

[Boomstick777]

There must be some better performing cores or more cores in this GPU. If it has the same core amount as 280X unless clocked extremely high I cannot see how it can beat the R9 280X.. Obviously a lot we don't know about this chip yet.

Going by current rumors it looks like R9 275X would have been a more fitting name, but for all we know this card could have 2300+ cores which would make up the deficit, i.e despite lower bus speed would still perform better than the 280X.

Strange that more details haven't leaked especially as going by the product photos (Unless fake) these can't be far from launch at all.

 

[FoxEye]

It's funny that we know so little this close to release.

Two weeks isn't it? Or was even that just a rumour?

 

[Freddie1980]

The point I was making is unless your employed as a chip designer its impossible for anyone to truly comprehend the complexities involved delivering cutting edge chips to market. The problem I have with drunks posts is you'll get people taking what he says as fact without taking into account what I've just outlined.

 

[Boomstick777]

Maybe HBM is a possibility?

AMD’s Volcanic Islands Refresh will allegedly utilize first generation of HBM

28nm GlobalFoundries 2H 2014 : Iceland and Tonga, VI 2.0

which has a bandwidth of 128 GBps and four layers of DRAMs. Each module has 1GB of memory, so if you had 4 of them, then your bandwidth would be 512 GB/s.

Two of these modules 2GB would equal 256..

Could this be the first refresh Volcanic Island card and feature 2GB HBM 256 Memory?

Possible 4GB cards would get 512Gb/s. This would at least make Tonga more interesting imho.

AMD’s Volcanic Islands 2.0 Graphics Cards will equip with HBM Memory

The next chips that come out at the end of the year will be based on the current architecture Volcanic Island with HBM memory and would wear Codenamed: Iceland, Tonga and Maui. It would then land the new architecture Pirate Island in 2015 should usher etching 20 nm.

http://tech4gamers.com/amds-volcanic-islands-2-0-graphics-cards-will-equip-with-hbm-memory/

 

[humbug]

Maybe HBM is a possibility?






Two of these modules 2GB would equal 256..

Could this be the first refresh Volcanic Island card and feature 2GB HBM 256 Memory?

Possible 4GB cards would get 512Gb/s. This would at least make Tonga more interesting imho.

AMD’s Volcanic Islands 2.0 Graphics Cards will equip with HBM Memory


http://tech4gamers.com/amds-volcanic-islands-2-0-graphics-cards-will-equip-with-hbm-memory/

yep, if they are to replace the 280X and call it the 285 i can't see it being slower and having less Vram.

Unless the 285's Memory (like the 290/X) is only clocked at 1250Mhz it should yield 417GB/s not 512GB/s, i think thats probably more likely, it should put it right in-between the 280X and 290.

280: 32 ROP's - 1792 SP's - 3GB - 384Bit @ 288GB/s | 100%
280X: 32 ROP's - 2048 SP's - 3GB - 384Bit @ 288GB/s | 110%
285: 32 ROP's - 2048 SP's - 4GB - 256Bit HBM @ 512GB/s (more likely 417GB/s) | 125%
290: 64 ROP's - 2560 SP's - 4GB - 512Bit @ 320GB/s | 140%
290X: 64 ROP's - 2816 SP's - 4GB - 512Bit @ 320GB/s | 150%

 

[Boomstick777]

if they are to replace the 280X and call it the 285 i can't see it being slower and having less Vram. *Snip*

Agreed, either the Tonga GPU has slower bus but more cores to make up the deficit, or similar core count but improved design and HBM.

If it's the later I may be interested in getting one of these, assuming prices will be good.

 

[FoxEye]

280: 32 ROP's - 1792 SP's - 3GB - 384Bit @ 288GB/s | 100%
280X: 32 ROP's - 2048 SP's - 3GB - 384Bit @ 288GB/s | 110%
285: 32 ROP's - 2048 SP's - 4GB - 256Bit HBM @ 512GB/s (more likely 417GB/s) | 125%
290: 64 ROP's - 2560 SP's - 4GB - 512Bit @ 320GB/s | 140%
290X: 64 ROP's - 2816 SP's - 4GB - 512Bit @ 320GB/s | 150%

Don't get my hopes up Although what you've suggested would be nice and makes sense, there's nothing to stop AMD making the 285 perform somewhere between the 280 and 280X.

As for HBM, Hynix are supposed to have had volume production ready in 2014, but who knows if it was early enough to start being used with Tonga. They only struck the deal in December 2013, so that would be pretty impressive if so.

Personally I'm not expecting too much. A low(er) power card performing like a 280 at 1080p is what I'm betting on. Anything more would be a bonus. A little downward movement in price would also be welcome.

 

[FoxEye]

Btw, the logic for the 285 being slower than the 280X would be if the 280 and 280X were to be phased out.

Then the 285 would replace the 280, and the extra +5 would be fine because it's a little faster than the 280.

The 285X would replace the 280X, and again would be a little faster, meriting the +5 nomenclature.

There would be no need to compare the 285 to the 280X, because they wouldn't be co-existing. You could call this "corporate logic" but I wouldn't discount the possibility.

 

[Boomstick777]

Btw, the logic for the 285 being slower than the 280X would be if the 280 and 280X were to be phased out.

Then the 285 would replace the 280, and the extra +5 would be fine because it's a little faster than the 280.

The 285X would replace the 280X, and again would be a little faster, meriting the +5 nomenclature.

There would be no need to compare the 285 to the 280X, because they wouldn't be co-existing. You could call this "corporate logic" but I wouldn't discount the possibility.

This is a good point, but I'm hoping the naming won't be based on "corporate logic" but rather the cards performance relevant to the others in the stack.

Hopefully 2048 or more SP's with 2GB/4GB HBM memory. Would be great for AMD to get HBM out of the gate before Nvidia..

Something weird about those 285 pictures as well, there is no mention on the box of which DirectX it supports. Other forums have called them out as fakes. Hopefully are fake and we're gonna get a fully directX12 capable card with 2048+ SP's and 2GB/4GB HBM

 

[humbug]

A 285 slower than a 280X is a 280, slower than a 280 would be a 275.

260 > 260X > 265

AMD have been working on Stacking and HBM for about 2 or 3 years now. HBM is an AMD-Hynix partnership that is recent but its not starting fresh, AMD already did the ground work, this is more about a partner to make it. its actually AMD IP that Hynix will be licensing from AMD, we are now well inside of Q3 2014, its about time, and guess who gets first dibs.

 

[FoxEye]

A 285 slower than a 280X is a 280, slower than a 280 would be a 275.

260 > 260X > 265

AMD have been working on Stacking and HBM for about 2 or 3 years now. HBM is an AMD-Hynix partnership that is recent but its not starting fresh, AMD already did the ground work, this is more about a partner to make it. its actually AMD IP that Hynix will be licensing from AMD, we are now well inside of Q3 2014, its about time, and guess who gets first dibs.

The thing is, Tonga if it comes in the next few weeks will have been designed before the Hynix deal was penned, no?

On that basis alone don't you think it's a little far-fetched for Tonga to be using HBM?

That would be a big gamble on AMD's part. What if Hynix had had problems making the chips? They only signed the deal in Dec 2013. Seems like too short notice to get them into Tonga.

I'm no expert but it seems like unbridled optimism

 

[humbug]

The thing is, Tonga if it comes in the next few weeks will have been designed before the Hynix deal was penned, no?

On that basis alone don't you think it's a little far-fetched for Tonga to be using HBM?

That would be a big gamble on AMD's part. What if Hynix had had problems making the chips? They only signed the deal in Dec 2013. Seems like too short notice to get them into Tonga.

I'm no expert but it seems like unbridled optimism

I am optimistic, doesn't mean i'm right or wrong.

As i said AMD have been designing HBM Stacking for years, its Hynix job to make it, before Hynix i think it was Elpida but they got into some trouble, its just as well as Hynix would be the better choice for it.

Look all this could just as easily be utterly wrong with every aspect and feature being something completely different to all current speculation, i'm just adding to that speculation. Well... actually reinforcing the latest speculation.

 

[Orangey]

HBM prototype was posted by Charlie in 2011 IIRC, get the lead out AMD...

 

[bru]

Look at the box shots, it clearly states 2GB GDDR5, definitely not HBM.

As for the box shots being fake, don't make me laugh, if it is HBM, I think that would be the fist time in history a fake is made to look worse than the actual product, people are dreaming if they think that is the case.

You gotto love how mention 4k on the box as well.

 

[Boomstick777]

As for the box shots being fake..

I have no idea whether these are fake or not but Direct X being missing is weird?

Direct X is no where to be seen on the box, since when was which version of DX the GPU is compatible with has ever been left off a GPU box?

Guy at OCN posted things like,

Scan the serial numbers oh my... These cards still use Elpida!

Man the guys at VCZ should have tried harder with these photoshops.

Sapphire - 7850
XFX - R9 270
HIS - R7 265

If you are going to photoshop at least hide the serial numbers.

http://videocardz.com/51157/amd-radeon-r9-285-tonga-gpu-pictured

Sapphire Radeon R9 285 Dual-X
Near the PCIe connect you see a sticky pad that has: B0237. Only 7850/7870 reference cards have that. (Newer versions have a QR code now)

XFX Radeon R9 285
The card being shown is this one: http://xfxforce.com/en-us/products/...-270x-double-dissipation-edition-r9-270x-cdjc

This one actually has the serial number removed.

HIS Radeon R9 285 IceQX2 Mini
It is on the PCIe connector

====
Desktop Versions;
Maui XT - 8 GB GDDR5 - 28-nm SHP / Hawaii Respin / 512-bit
Tonga XT - 4 GB GDDR5 - 28-nm SHP / Tahiti Respin / 256-bit
Iceland XT - 4 GB DDR3 - 28-nm SHP / Oland Respin / 128-bit

Mobile Versions;
Ameythst XT - 4 GB GDDR5
Topaz XT - 4 GB DDR3

Enhanced Sea Islands but not Volcanic Islands.

Looking forward to some actual reviews

 

[humbug]

Look at the box shots, it clearly states 2GB GDDR5, definitely not HBM.

Spoiler

As for the box shots being fake, don't make me laugh, if it is HBM, I think that would be the fist time in history a fake is made to look worse than the actual product, people are dreaming if they think that is the case.

You gotto love how mention 4k on the box as well.

So they are also only 265Bit. (although possibly could be 512Bit tho i doubt that)

Scaling ratio is roughly about 0.6 to Core and 0.4 to Memory

270X vs 280X performance difference average 30% http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1043?vs=1041

280X: 2048 SP's @ 1050Mhz - 3GB 384Bit @ 1500Mhz 288GB/s (100%)
270X: 1280 SP's @ 1050Mhz - 2GB 265Bit @ 1500Mhz 192GB/s (70%)

possible #1
285: 2048 SP's @ 1050Mhz - 2GB 256Bit @ 1500Mhz 192GB/s (85%)

possible #2
285: 2048 SP's @ 1050Mhz - 2GB 256Bit @ 1750Mhz 224GB/s (95%)

possible #3
285: 2048 SP's @ 1150Mhz - 2GB 256Bit @ 1750Mhz 224GB/s (100%)

The 280X is £200+
The 270X is £130+

Performance value with 2GB Vram in mind =

#1 = £140+
#2 = £150+
#3 = £170+

Thats my opinion anyway they will struggle to sell them with 2GB of Vram for anything more then £170, while if the performance in reviews is anything like #1 they will not sell them for much more than the 270X.

Are AMD about to make a colossal blunder?

although possibly could be 512Bit tho i doubt that

Or am i wrong in that assumption?

 

[_Alatar_]

It's 256bit because AMD needs a faster (than pitcairn), more efficient GPU for laptop use. laptops and 384bit let alone 512bit is usually a no-go. Definitely a no-go for volume sales.

Laptops is where they're bleeding the most marketshare and that's what they're addressing. Desktop is a secondary concern here, however if they can sell these at a lower cost than tahiti then why not.

 

[Orangey]

http://wccftech.com/amd-launches-fi...00-firepro-w5100-firepro-w4100-firepro-w2100/

"Not a Tahiti rework", they said.