AMD Working On An Entire Range of HBM GPUs To Follow Fiji And Fury Lineup – Has Priority To HBM2 Cap

andybird123 · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:15

Mauller said:
of course it is affected by CPU... because DX11 is affected by the driver which is affected by the CPU... if it was not affected by the CPU then every card at the same frequency should have the same scores within a small margin of error.

The above is also true when you compare driver versions, newer ones improving performance by lowering driver overhead.

yet there are lower clocked cards with more powerful cups getting higher scores than higher clocked cards with less powerful cpus. you only have to look at the chart to see that.

So explain to me why the lower clocked CPU in 2nd place has a higher gfx score than gibbo's first place

Same with 8 and 9

eddyr · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:17

Surely the question is why wouldn't they do it. If it is clocking higher and nets you a +40 points then why not.

What were their score without mem overclock?

humbug · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:22

andybird123 said:
So explain to me why the lower clocked CPU in 2nd place has a higher gfx score than gibbo's first place

Same with 8 and 9

This?

Score 19575, GPU 980 Ti @1510/2100, GFX Score 21409, Physics Score 23697, Combined Score 10285, CPU 5960X @4.873, Gibbo, Post No.283 - Link Drivers 353.30

Score 19488, GPU TitanX @1554/1907, GFX Score 21992, Physics Score 21765, Combined Score 9692, CPU 5960X @4.5, tipes, Post No.172 - Link Drivers 350.05

One is a Titan-X the other is a GTX 980TI.

andybird123 · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:24

humbug said:
This?

One is a Titan-X the other is a GTX 980TI.

Yeah, so what, if cpu was having a big effect on the gfx score then surely it should all be higher, not just the highest physics score

Mauller · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:25

Kaapstad said:
Firestrike graphics scores are not effected much if all the people are using top notch i7s which is the case here.

Also if overclocking the memory did not work on the Fury X why have the guys above done it. They are still using the same CPU before and after lol.

I never said that you could not overclock the memory on the fury x... you really have a problem with comprehension. plus as stated before, all it is showing is that you can improve performance by overclocking. not that the memory clock is holding back the gpu as you keep saying.

also as i was explaining:

32. Score 15637, GPU 980 Ti @1412/1980, GFX Score 19375, Physics Score 14370, Combined Score 6757, CPU 5930k @3.5, Clov!s, Post No.307 - Link Drivers 353.06

33. Score 15505, GPU 980 Ti @1260/1753, GFX Score 19696, Physics Score 11935, Combined Score 7223, CPU 3770k @4.5, rapt0r, Post No.384 - Link Drivers 353.38

rapt0r's is lower clocked, older cpu at a higher clock. also with newer drivers. So is the GPU clock affecting the GFX score only? since it does not look like it. the system as a whole affects it.

22.Score 16259, GPU 980 Ti @1497/1898, GFX Score 20819, Physics Score 12120, Combined Score 7632, CPU 3820k @4.75, lnoton, Post No.342 - Link Drivers 353.38

23.Score 16258, GPU 980 Ti @1250/1850, GFX Score 20281, Physics Score 12679, Combined Score 7876, CPU 4770k @4.5, iwrox, Post No.301 - Link Drivers 353.30

Another instance where a lower clocked gpu is matching a higher clocked gpu. where the lower clocked gpu has a more powerful cpu even though it is running on older drivers.

There are plenty of others. just look for them. if the GFX score was affected by the GPU clocks alone then ALL of the same cards would give the same scores at the same clocks.

humbug · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:28

andybird123 said:
Yeah, so what, if cpu was having a big effect on the gfx score then surely it should all be higher, not just the highest physics score

In FutureMark The CPU does not have an effect on the Graphics score, Graphics and CPU scores are measured separately, Gibbo's CPU (Physics) is much higher which has given him an overall score that puts him ahead.
Its why i argued many months ago that the overall score is not as relevant in a GPU sub-forum as the GPU score.

D.P. · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:33

Gregster overlooked memory on his FuryX and got a god performance boost, more so than form increasing the core.

One of the few FuryX owners should verify that.

fs123 · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:34

humbug said:
Because your overclocking it, by overclocking you are increasing the memory bandwidth, 550Mhz is a 10% overclock, your increasing the memory performance from 512GB/s to 563GB/s.
In the same way that if you overclock GDDR5 you are also increasing the memory performance, from 1250Mhz (320GB/s) to 1375Mhz (352GB/s)

Its overclocking, thats what it does, your too hung up on the 500Mhz thing, you think because its a low number it must be slow, its the same mentality that makes people think Nvidia's 1750Mhz memory must be faster than AMD's 1250Mhz, its very simplistic logic which ignores the 512Bit bus on one vs the 256Bit bus on the other.
512Bit @ 1250Mhz = 320GB/s
256Bit @ 1750Mhz = 225GB/s

Its nothing to do with the HBM architecture and the IC's Mhz. it is faster. much faster than GDDR5, doesn't mean its fast enough for what it needs to do on Fiji.

There could be two reasons for the lower performance at 1080P.

- If the data is not being transferred efficiently because of drivers or whatever then the gpu is not being fed properly in which case a faster HBM clock speed would make up for it.

- On the other hand the gpu may not be fast enough to process the incoming data at 1080P i.e HBM being bottlenecked by the GPU. :eek:

Kaapstad · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:37

Mauller said:
I never said that you could not overclock the memory on the fury x... you really have a problem with comprehension. plus as stated before, all it is showing is that you can improve performance by overclocking. not that the memory clock is holding back the gpu as you keep saying.

One and the same thing, if you can get more by overclocking then the memory clockspeed is holding the GPU back.

And there is nothing wrong with my comprehension, it works well enough to tell me you have been quite rude several times now lol.

Kaapstad · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:38

humbug said:
In FutureMark The CPU does not have an effect on the Graphics score, Graphics and CPU scores are measured separately, Gibbo's CPU (Physics) is much higher which has given him an overall score that puts him ahead.
Its why i argued many months ago that the overall score is not as relevant in a GPU sub-forum as the GPU score.

This is why I list all the information.

Mauller · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:41

Kaapstad said:
One and the same thing, if you can get more by overclocking then the memory clockspeed is holding the GPU back.

And there is nothing wrong with my comprehension, it works well enough to tell me you have been quite rude several times now lol.

Same again... It purely shows that overclocking can improve performance. so by your logic, is GM200 being held back by its ram not being clocked at greater than 1.7ghz? since everyone else s gpu's get a nice boost when clocked higher.

by your logic again, everything is being held back by its reference clock speed.

humbug · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:42

fs123 said:
There could be two reasons for the lower performance at 1080P.

- If the data is not being transferred efficiently because of drivers or whatever then the gpu is not being fed properly in which case a faster HBM clock speed would make up for it.

- On the other hand the gpu may not be fast enough to process the incoming data at 1080P i.e HBM being bottlenecked by the GPU.

Yes, i could add a few more.

- Driver overheads causing high latency DrawCall and / or rendering.
- Capacity management Texture swapping chewing up a lot of GB/s
- Memory Bandwidth is not enough to allow Fiji to stretch its legs
- Lack of ROP's.....

Dygaza · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:43

Kaapstad said:
So why does overclocking the memory on a Fury X @1080p bring positive gains even though the card already has massive bandwidth compared to say a TitanX ?

Answer because the memory clockspeed is holding HBM back.

Perhaps you should get hold of a Fury card and try it yourself !!!

Here is the Firestrike 1080p standard bench you will notice the people who overclocked the memory on their Fury Xs have got the higher graphics scores.

Don't forget that Rops are pretty much always memory bandwidth starved.

Kaapstad · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:44

D.P. said:
Gregster overlooked memory on his FuryX and got a god performance boost, more so than form increasing the core.

One of the few FuryX owners should verify that.

I have not got the time now as I am off to work for a few days.

Even if I did post the results I don't think some people would believe it.

I had to RMA one of my Fury Xs, I spent about 18 hours fault finding before I sent it back and you will never guess what the fault was -

It was a memory bandwidth problem lol. :eek:

Fortunately my other 3 cards were fine.

eddyr · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:45

Well taking it back to the firestrike table for a moment, uksoldierboy (top furyX) is running 15.7 drivers vs the others on 15.15.

Kaapstad · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:48

Mauller said:
Same again... It purely shows that overclocking can improve performance. so by your logic, is GM200 being held back by its ram not being clocked at greater than 1.7ghz? since everyone else s gpu's get a nice boost when clocked higher.

by your logic again, everything is being held back by its reference clock speed.

How much bandwidth does a Fury X have compared to the next best card lol.

If that amount of bandwidth is not doing the job @1080p by a wide margin then it does not take much working out where the problem is !!!!

Clockspeed

Dygaza · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:49

eddyr said:
Well taking it back to the firestrike table for a moment, uksoldierboy (top furyX) is running 15.7 drivers vs the others on 15.15.

15.7 don't really bring that much new for Fury X from 15.15's. They bring more to older cards. For Fury X their biggest difference is on Win10 (WDDM 2.0).

Kaapstad · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:50

eddyr said:
Well taking it back to the firestrike table for a moment, uksoldierboy (top furyX) is running 15.7 drivers vs the others on 15.15.

The thing is he felt he got an increase by overclocking the memory or he would not have bothered.

ratters · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:54

After reading this thread I am going for the no one really knows what going on. I am sure more confused before i came across it.

humbug · 14 Jul 2015 at 17:56

Kaapstad said:
How much bandwidth does a Fury X have compared to the next best card lol.

If that amount of bandwidth is not doing the job @1080p by a wide margin then it does not take much working out where the problem is !!!!

Clockspeed

We are pretty much on the same page, yes increasing the clock speed increases the performance, but its not because its low. its a bit like a 2L engine producing 200BHP @ 9000 RPM or a 4L engine producing 200BHP at 4500RPM, HBM is a big low RPM engine.

Fiji has a lot of Memory performance, a lot more than Hawaii, it just needs even more.