American Helathcare reform bill vote - finally!

[OpenToSuggestions]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000840-503544.html



Finally, finally, finally. I am really hoping that this goes through, and Obama is able to sign it into law. It's absolutely disgraceful that America is the only 'developed nation' with no form of national healthcare provision of any kind (now that South Africa is in the process of implementing one).

The worst outcome, as far as I'm concerned, would be that it doesn't go through because of the scaremongering that's going on by so many right-wing maniacs. Also, I'm exceptionally fond of Obama, and if this doesn't go through, then the chances of him being re-elected are going to disintegrate before his eyes, and given how utterly pathetic the Republican party have been performing for the past decade, that would not be a good thing.

I would much prefer the American system in the UK.
I would pay less taxes and pay privately for health cover.

Overall I would have more money and the scummers down the council road aren't getting healthcare paid for by me.

I do think Obama's new system is better, having 'affordable healthcare', but our NHS system is very very flawed and I do home the Americans don't want to base their system on ours.

 

[digipeep]

Not necessarily a bad thing

Agreed, but if you are one of the poor unfortunates on the end of a dodgy Del Boy deal, which probably equates to 40 million people, it's not such a good deal.

That's why Obama must win.

 

[VaderDSL]

So says you are American and break you arm do they have hospitals that you can just walk into and seen after a wait for free or do you need to have insurance or pay for it up front?

America is a strange place, all the middle class and working class wont want this to go through because they pay for medical care and they will see it as the poor are gaining something.

AFAIK and this may be a mis-informed generalisation but in America you have to have health insurance, if you can afford it you have it (companies can help with thus yes? providing insurance for their employees?). So if you break an arm you go down to whatever hospital, they check you have insurance I presume then do whatever then charge the insurance company for the cost?

If you can't afford insurance and break an arm say, if you go to a hospital and they find you have no insurance, I guess they won't treat you? Or if they do they hand you a massive bill at the end of it.

As I said gross simplification and probably mis-informed.

 

[trent]

its very expensive. One CAT scan and a 2 hour ER visit = $10254

 

[Lightnix]

AFAIK and this may be a mis-informed generalisation but in America you have to have health insurance, if you can afford it you have it (companies can help with thus yes? providing insurance for their employees?). So if you break an arm you go down to whatever hospital, they check you have insurance I presume then do whatever then charge the insurance company for the cost?

If you can't afford insurance and break an arm say, if you go to a hospital and they find you have no insurance, I guess they won't treat you? Or if they do they hand you a massive bill at the end of it.

As I said gross simplification and probably mis-informed.

I can't say I know the ins and outs of their system, but from what I've read a lot of people in America end up in rather large amounts of debt because of their healthcare system.

At least that's the impression I get from things like this:
http://medheadlines.com/2008/08/22/almost-half-of-working-america-plagued-by-medical-debt/

Obviously I can't vouch for the statistics given.

 

[Doohickey]

I would much prefer the American system in the UK.
I would pay less taxes and pay privately for health cover.

Overall I would have more money and the scummers down the council road aren't getting healthcare paid for by me.

I do think Obama's new system is better, having 'affordable healthcare', but our NHS system is very very flawed and I do home the Americans don't want to base their system on ours.

This is the thing; I am more than happy to pay taxes to ensure that anyone and everyone is eligible for quality healthcare, even if I never personally require these services myself.

 

[Rich_L]

The fundamental problem with US health insurance is that insurance companies can deny or limit coverage on 'underwriting grounds' - if you're likely to be 'too expensive', you get denied.

Take a look at this list - had, have, or know anyone with any of these?

http://www.fracturedatlas.org/site/healthcare/includes/assurant_declineable_conditions.pdf

Yup, tough luck - no insurance coverage for you I'm afraid.

In other words, the people that need healthcare most, are either flat-out denied it, only given partial coverage, or the premiums are wholly unaffordable.

Factor in:

'co-payments' - insurance companies will only cover say, 20% of your first $5,000 of payments and then cover the rest.

'deductibles' - like car insurance, you have to pay a certain amount, $1k, $2.5k, $5k out of your own pocket before any cover kicks in

The ability of insurance companies to withdraw coverage if you get 'too expensive'.

The fact they try to pin everything on any pre-existing conditions that are not covered, in order to get out of paying.

The fact that people are essentially blackmailed with their health by employers through access to the magical 'group coverage' offered.

It is only because of state and federal regulations that there is even a modicum of hope for the 'uninsurable' or 'under-insured'.

If there is one example of how something as essential as healthcare should never, ever be left solely to the 'free market', the US healthcare system is it, IMHO.

 

[digipeep]

Do we get any Americans in this forum to educate us Limeys how it works from someone in the front line?

 

[Lightnix]

This is the thing; I am more than happy to pay taxes to ensure that anyone and everyone is eligible for quality healthcare, even if I never personally require these services myself.

I agree. I think medical care is and should remain a right - people shouldn't be made to live in preventable, agonising pain, we shouldn't allow curable diseases to spread, just because some people (and generally speaking, these are the people with enough money to spend!) would prefer to pay a little less in taxes. Also, people say that you'll pay less taxes if we were to privatise the NHS, but would we really? I think the government would just plunge the money straight into something we'll never directly benefit from (yet more data collection schemes, anyone?). Then we'd just be paying health insurance (probably at extortionate rates, too) on top of that!

 

[Squark]

Where's Feek when you need him?

The used to be several Americans on the boards

 

[rypt]

Agreed, but if you are one of the poor unfortunates on the end of a dodgy Del Boy deal, which probably equates to 40 million people, it's not such a good deal.

That's why Obama must win.

Kids already get healthcare, kids also get a free education - as such there is still social mobility via that and it allows the kids to make whatever they want out of their lives.

 

[Chimerical]

I gave up caring about this a while ago. The 'Liberals' in America make me want to punch my own face in.

Also, its not like, erm, thousands of people haven't died under our system due to circumstances that could have prevented.

 

[Rich_L]

The other point, is that denying coverage on 'underwriting reasons' surely requires that there is a form of choice in the matter.

For the vast majority of pre-existing conditions, chronic organ conditions, cancers, viruses, psychological disorders, hormone imbalances, you name it - they just happen. You can't predict them, you can't mitigate them, you can't prevent them.

By definition, all of us who die of natural causes will die of a pre-existing condition, it's just those people who happen to be diagnosed officially, and need healthcare the most, are also those people left high and dry because they are 'too expensive' to insure.

It is, frankly, immoral and an embarassment to a nation as developed as the US.

 

[Lightnix]

I gave up caring about this a while ago. The 'Liberals' in America make me want to punch my own face in.

Also, its not like, erm, thousands of people haven't died under our system due to circumstances that could have prevented.

Because introducing another barrier to entry would totally help that, right?

 

[Chimerical]

Because introducing another barrier to entry would totally help that, right?

It would help if people weren't totally in denial about the NHS.

I hear far too often the "we know NHS isn't perfect" line or some rubbish about it not having funding. The problem with the American system that the Republicans bury their head in the sand with it but the same thing happens here with Labour.

Other European countries have insurance systems as well, if that's what you're referring to.

 

[jp_bl_68]

Finally, finally, finally. I am really hoping that this goes through

Why do you care so much, have you got family out there? What the US does is its own business.

 

[Zom]

Also, its not like, erm, thousands of people haven't died under our system due to circumstances that could have prevented.

Exactly! The fact that people a small number of people have died due to mistakes made by the NHS just shows why universal healthcare sucks. Plus I heard that if you go private the doctors never ever make mistakes! How good is that?

 

[rypt]

its very expensive. One CAT scan and a 2 hour ER visit = $10254

That is an issue separate from universal healthcare though, prices can be driven down without expanding the state.

For the record though, I support the NHS system, though I feel it can run far better if it was closer to Japanese level (private system where 80%+ of the cost per person is paid for by government, with free for kids afaik).
And funnily the government spends less per capita than we do here on NHS

 

[Doohickey]

I agree. I think medical care is and should remain a right - people shouldn't be made to live in preventable, agonising pain, we shouldn't allow curable diseases to spread, just because some people (and generally speaking, these are the people with enough money to spend!) would prefer to pay a little less in taxes. Also, people say that you'll pay less taxes if we were to privatise the NHS, but would we really? I think the government would just plunge the money straight into something we'll never directly benefit from (yet more data collection schemes, anyone?). Then we'd just be paying health insurance (probably at extortionate rates, too) on top of that!

In addition, I'm happy to pay for private medical insurance in the UK should I want to expedite my medical care, or make requests that are not typically necessary. In the United States, for the most part, being insured is merely entitles you to 'normal' healthcare. Their premium would be akin to whatever portion of tax we pay towards the NHS. There's no politics in this, it's completely based around money, and the pseudo-justification behind that is the backwards anti-socialism/taxes/equality defence

 

[Andy_82]

Exactly! The fact that people a small number of people have died due to mistakes made by the NHS just shows why universal healthcare sucks. Plus I heard that if you go private the doctors never ever make mistakes! How good is that?

I think that would be unlikely as most of the consultants in private hospitals also work in the NHS.

I hope this bill goes through as in my experience the people most in need of health care and generally have long term conditions which may well prevent employment and thus health insurence. I feel extremely great full that I live in the Uk rather than the US.