Amp for HD700's?

Bes · 20 Jul 2017 at 19:27

Hi,

I've just scored myself a bit of a bargain in that I managed to pick up a pair of Sennheiser HS700's for £200! (Brand new, just been sat in a display case for the past year according to the shop)

I've been thinking about getting some audiophile cans for a while, but to be honest, it's a bit of an impulse (that was too good to pass up - if I decide they aren't for me I can definitely sell them on and get my money back).

As a result, I'm in the market for an entry level amp/ DAC to go with them - not looking to spend too much at this stage, I can always upgrade later, but I was thinking about one of the Dragonflys or the Fiio E17. Does anyone have any opinions on what might be good to get me started? I can always upgrade later in the year or drop some strong hints to the GF near Christmas around an upgrade

Cheers!

Mr_Sukebe · 20 Jul 2017 at 20:29

Not had many, but the one I enjoyed the most was a Little Dot4se, which is a valve amp. Used it to run my HD600s. Sounded fantastic and looked great too. Only sold it as I'm not really a music headphone listener.
Sold mine for just £150, so they're not that expensive.

I got the impression that Dark Voice are manufacturer of similar style valve amps (though many of theirs are a good deal more expensive, and I assume better). Would be worth looking out for both.

I currently use a Meridian explorer2 with my cans on my PC. Sounds fine and includes MQA decoding. My guess is that I'd prefer the sound of the LD4.

FurryLemon · 20 Jul 2017 at 20:33

Cheap and decent - Schiit Modi and Mangi stack. Around 200 quid the last time I looked.

Bes · 21 Jul 2017 at 10:06

Thanks both.

The schiit stuff seems to be hard to find in the UK - the Little Dot looks good though.

I wonder if I got a Dragonfly red alone now and used that for the timebeing then bought something like the Little Dot later on would be a good DAC/ Amp combo?

Marsman · 21 Jul 2017 at 10:51

Bes said:
The schiit stuff seems to be hard to find in the UK

Not at all. https://schiit.eu.com

If you are referring to the lack of other stockists though, then Schiit EU is the only place.

Mr_Sukebe · 21 Jul 2017 at 13:47

Assuming this is purely for music listening, you might want to consider just using a Raspberry directly into a valve headphone amp.
I recently ran a comparison of my own Meridian 861 against a Raspberry Pi3, both running as Roon end points, and whilst the 861 was better, it was nothing like as much better as you'd expect for the money. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pi3 with a decent internal DAC (I have an IQ one) was on par with many of the cheaper DACs out there.

Psycho Sonny · 21 Jul 2017 at 16:14

Marsman said:
Not at all. https://schiit.eu.com

If you are referring to the lack of other stockists though, then Schiit EU is the only place.

you can't go wrong with schiit even their budget stuff sounds like top end

Muller1989 · 22 Jul 2017 at 09:45

The SMSL amps are pretty good value. I have the M3 DAC/AMP combo and currently have a Little Dot MKIII on order to use as a pre amp.

I have the Fostex MKIII Planars which are reasonably hard to drive.

The difference between the onboard to the M3 amp is massive.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Hi-Fi-Ho...e=UTF8&qid=1500713985&sr=8-1&keywords=SMSL+M3

Psycho Sonny · 22 Jul 2017 at 13:36

Bes said:
Hi,

I've just scored myself a bit of a bargain in that I managed to pick up a pair of Sennheiser HS700's for £200! (Brand new, just been sat in a display case for the past year according to the shop)

I've been thinking about getting some audiophile cans for a while, but to be honest, it's a bit of an impulse (that was too good to pass up - if I decide they aren't for me I can definitely sell them on and get my money back).

As a result, I'm in the market for an entry level amp/ DAC to go with them - not looking to spend too much at this stage, I can always upgrade later, but I was thinking about one of the Dragonflys or the Fiio E17. Does anyone have any opinions on what might be good to get me started? I can always upgrade later in the year or drop some strong hints to the GF near Christmas around an upgrade

Cheers!

tbh HD70's aren't that good for music. they are great for gaming though.

HD650's are better for music

TALON1973 · 22 Jul 2017 at 14:39

id have to i agree with psycho. Altho the the 700 are a lot comfier . Especially for long listening periods.

Bes · 22 Jul 2017 at 16:52

Psycho Sonny said:
tbh HD70's aren't that good for music. they are great for gaming though.

HD650's are better for music

Yeah from what I understand they are certainly marmite in terms of whether people like their sound or not, but I've not heard anyone go so far as to say they aren't that good for music but more suited to gaming.

I've got some Schiit DACs/ Amps to try, so will write a little review of these along with my HD700's and Beyer T50P's (2 very different headphones at different price points) if anyone is interested?

Psycho Sonny · 22 Jul 2017 at 18:06

Bes said:
Yeah from what I understand they are certainly marmite in terms of whether people like their sound or not, but I've not heard anyone go so far as to say they aren't that good for music but more suited to gaming.

I've ordered some Schiit DACs/ Amps to try, so will write a little review of these along with my HD700's and Beyer T50P's (2 very different headphones at different price points) if anyone is interested?

Well I own HD700's, HD600's, AKG Q701's and DT770's as well as HD558's atm. Had a few others in the past including HiFiMan's.

I use my HD600's for music as well as the AKG's. HD700, Q701 and HD558's for gaming. DT770's if someone else is in the room.

HD700 is very much better for gaming than it is music. I think HD800 is the one you want for music else HD600 or HD650

Bes · 24 Jul 2017 at 16:27

Ok I've got a Schiit Magni 2 and Modi 2 hooked up to my HD700's. Main source is Tidal on HiFi/ Lossless mode. Definitely too bright for a lot of material. The highs are really fatiguing on certain tracks.

For reference, my Hifi is an Audiolab 8000S/P and a pair of JMLab 816S floorstanders, so I'm used to neutral presentation.

Some genres/ tracks sound amazing like some of the Beethoven I tried, along with Mike Oldfield/Tubular Bells, Pink Floyd/ Money, Isaac Hayes/ Walk On By, and Jay-Z/4:44.

Rock sounded mostly like a mess with excruciating highs at the peak and a muddy/ confused midrange with no decent separation - Foals/ Inhaler didn't sound good, and neither did Nine Inch Nails/ She's Gone Away (Which actually sounds better played on my Yamaha soundbar of all things!). Songs with high/ sharp vocals and trumpets like Ella Fitzgerald/ Wait 'til You See Him was also painful to listen to.

Lil' Wayne/ Turn Down for What and Shpongle/ Star Shpongled Banner are usually good tests of bass (Particularly the latter which has some very deep guitar strumming at around 1:00-2:00 and all were a little disappointing not that I want a bassy presentation, but they just didn't sound rich/ punchy enough compared to other setups I've heard - particularly the former.

Other tracks with plenty of bass sounded great though, so not sure what is going on there. Maybe the cans need more time to burn in, or if this is down to the amp or what.

This particular Amp/ Headphone combination definitely seems to favour vocals and acoustics. Overall not a great pairing though unfortunately.

Luckily I am only borrowing them so no cost/ risk was taken in trying that combo

I have to say, the Schiit stuff sounds great with the Beyer T50Ps, but these are getting sold.

The HD700s need a valve amp I think, so I'm thinking of trying a Pi DAC and am currently on the look out for a Little Dot MKIII as those things get rave reviews everywhere!

I'm still not convinced I will keep the whole lot long- term, but it's a fun experiment, and shouldn't end up costing me too much

Psycho Sonny · 24 Jul 2017 at 16:49

should have went with the vali

Bes · 26 Jul 2017 at 09:51

Well I just got my hands on a vali 2 - it's a good improvement. Definitely warmer/ more velvety and clearly a better amp than the Magni 2 - it just seems to drive the HD700s a lot better. Mids in particular (Pianos, etc. in particular) are improved/ much smoother.

Rock tracks that have a lot going on, which were the worst last time with the Magni 2 like Foals/ Inhaler sound vastly better - much better separation between all the sounds, and a huge amount of the 'muddiness' seems to have gone, but I still feel there is a bit of a sharp bite to the sound in the upper trebles (The top end of human vocals/ crashing cymbals, that kind of sound. I think this is partly a characteristic of the HD700s, probably what psycho sonny was referring to, but also maybe something a different valve would help with. I will give them some more time and see how I get on

FurryLemon · 26 Jul 2017 at 22:50

Bes said:
Ok I've got a Schiit Magni 2 and Modi 2 hooked up to my HD700's. Main source is Tidal on HiFi/ Lossless mode. Definitely too bright for a lot of material. The highs are really fatiguing on certain tracks.

For reference, my Hifi is an Audiolab 8000S/P and a pair of JMLab 816S floorstanders, so I'm used to neutral presentation.

Some genres/ tracks sound amazing like some of the Beethoven I tried, along with Mike Oldfield/Tubular Bells, Pink Floyd/ Money, Isaac Hayes/ Walk On By, and Jay-Z/4:44.

Rock sounded mostly like a mess with excruciating highs at the peak and a muddy/ confused midrange with no decent separation - Foals/ Inhaler didn't sound good, and neither did Nine Inch Nails/ She's Gone Away (Which actually sounds better played on my Yamaha soundbar of all things!). Songs with high/ sharp vocals and trumpets like Ella Fitzgerald/ Wait 'til You See Him was also painful to listen to.

Lil' Wayne/ Turn Down for What and Shpongle/ Star Shpongled Banner are usually good tests of bass (Particularly the latter which has some very deep guitar strumming at around 1:00-2:00 and all were a little disappointing not that I want a bassy presentation, but they just didn't sound rich/ punchy enough compared to other setups I've heard - particularly the former.

Other tracks with plenty of bass sounded great though, so not sure what is going on there. Maybe the cans need more time to burn in, or if this is down to the amp or what.

This particular Amp/ Headphone combination definitely seems to favour vocals and acoustics. Overall not a great pairing though unfortunately.

Luckily I am only borrowing them so no cost/ risk was taken in trying that combo

I have to say, the Schiit stuff sounds great with the Beyer T50Ps, but these are getting sold.

The HD700s need a valve amp I think, so I'm thinking of trying a Pi DAC and am currently on the look out for a Little Dot MKIII as those things get rave reviews everywhere!

I'm still not convinced I will keep the whole lot long- term, but it's a fun experiment, and shouldn't end up costing me too much

Little Dot mk1-mk3 are good budget tube amps. Chinese made (and shipped normally) but they're solid and there are a ton of tubes out there to play with. Another cheap entry into tube world is the Aune T1. Again Chinese made but solid (I have one).

Tubes for these range from 5 quid to 90 odd quid so very reasonably priced. Some tubes for higher end gear can run into 4 figures.

Muller1989 · 31 Jul 2017 at 20:55

I swapped out the standard tubes to Mullard 8100. Pretty happy with the setup from Little Dot

The Vali 2 is a great choice, enjoy!

Psycho Sonny · 1 Aug 2017 at 16:55

i have the aune t1. it's a tube DAC with a solid state amp. it's a really good setup for £120 however it does also have a few niggly issues. i couldn't get it to be recognised on a couple of laptops for instance. the power supply can be a little noisy too (slight hum).

also tube pricing is ridiculous. max you should spend on a tube is like £20. your paying for rarity rather than clarity by going more expensive.

the schiit range IMO is the best to go for and again it's their budget to mid range stuff that is best in terms of value for money. the higher you go up your getting very little if any noticeable gain.

your now having to colour the sound to suit the headphones. has you bought HD600/HD650 or HD800's you wouldn't need to do this or not as much. again i think HD800's aren't worth it. HD600/HD650 is where it's at for music.

Bes · 1 Aug 2017 at 17:16

Well... all headphone colour the sound to an extent (a warm pair vs an analytical pair for example).

The HD700s (and the tube amp I guess) definitely seem to be opening up more as I clock up the hours. Everything seems to be getting smoother/ more enjoyable to listen to, and I think the sibilance is a little less harsh than it was.

Psycho Sonny · 2 Aug 2017 at 13:49

you could always get a TUBE DAC to pair with TUBE AMP. With a couple of dark/warm tubes split between them.

I really like Tubes compared to solid state/digital.

Amp for HD700's?

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