Amplifier & subwoofer advice needed...

T-800 · 14 Jul 2009 at 20:12

My 3 year old Gigaworks S750 has just given up the ghost after being on the fritz since I bought it, so now I'm thinking about getting a separate amplifier and subwoofer to use with the 7 speakers that came with my S750... Figured it would be the best way to go for a proper, reliable 7.1 setup.

I guess what I'd like to know is, what do I need? Bit of a novice in this department, I'm afraid, so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Firegod · 17 Jul 2009 at 18:41

I'm guessing for 7.1 sound (i.e. your 7 speakers and 1 sub) you will need an A/V amp, not a regular Stereo Amp that a normal 2.1 Hi-Fi setup would have. From what I've understood (and that may be wrong) but you need an expensive A/V amp to match the sound quality of cheaper Stereo amp. (Please someone correct if that is not the case).

So, you'll output the sound from your PC/Soundcard, into the Amp and then have your surround sound speakers all plugged in the Amp (again, guessing with push/pull terminals) as the speakers from the S750 will just be bare wire. Your sub will most likely go to a dedicated sub connection on the amp.

If that's all correct you therefore need:-

A/V Amp
Subwoofer + Cable to connect to Amp

I think there is a sticky in the Hi-Fi sub-forum which may help also.

gareth170 · 17 Jul 2009 at 19:17

yeah you'll need a 7.1 A/V amp also depending on what amp u get u may need a amp for the sub or a sub with a built-in amp..

i have a 7.1 system now with 3 sub's. i would say if u have the money try getting a good quality A/V amp.

james.miller · 17 Jul 2009 at 19:19

budget is king. how much are you willing to throw at an av amp?

remember, you wont find any stand alone amps that'll also power your subwoofer - they dont exist as far as i know. the only amps that will will come pre-bundled with speakers and a subwoofer anyway, but maybe you can find something second hand to do the job.

Alexrose1uk · 17 Jul 2009 at 20:50

To give you an idea of where this goes money wise mate, I'd consider whether you have £200-300 to spend on a decent Subwoofer (with built in amp), and 250-500 for an individual AV amp.

If you're still listening and considering, then go for it, it's an awesome area to invest in, as if you listen to music, watch films or game a lot, it will benefit each and every one.

T-800 · 14 Dec 2009 at 22:02

Totally forgot about this thread - Sorry about that! Thanks for the replies, guys.

Would I be alright with getting a 7.1 AV amp for now, and a subwoofer with built-in amp at a later date? Don't think I can really afford both at the same time!

Also, what is the difference between an amplifier and a receiver? Most of the 7.1 AV "amps" I've been looking at are called "receivers". In fact, I don't think I've come across a single 7.1 AV amplifier in my search...

Lastly, not too sure on what brands I should be looking at, or what I should be looking for in an AV amp. Brand-wise, I'm currenly looking at Denon, Pioneer and Yamaha, because I know of them and have liked a lot of their products in the past. I'd like to shy away from Sony, to be honest - Never been too impressed by their stuff.

I could probably budget a maximum of £500 for the 7.1 AV amp, but not a penny more.

Any suggestions on particular models / features / specifications I should be looking at?

T-800.

danyulland · 14 Dec 2009 at 22:28

Personally speaking i wouldnt really spend anymore then £300 on the amp ( the speakers arnt going to benefit from anything better).

I bought a Denon 1909 a while back and its fab. Usually Onkyo offer good bang for buck aswell.

Subwoofer wise, consider BK subwoofers, google it. There Gemini 2 is £200 really good value for money!

Amplifier/receiver is interchangeable its the same thing really.

Marsman · 14 Dec 2009 at 22:29

Can't say I know much about AV receivers, but I think an AV receiver powers just the satellites. You would need an active sub as you mentioned. You could just buy an AV receiver for now, but without a sub the sound would not have much weight to it.

I suppose if you spent £500 say on an AV receiver, then at some point I think it would be worth replacing the satellites. I have a feeling a £500 AV receiver is an awful lot to spend to pair with the satellites you have if you do not plan on upgrading them at some point.

Alexrose1uk · 14 Dec 2009 at 23:15

T800, an amplifier is just that, it solely amplifies. A reciever has the additional components for decoding etc, so all AV Amps you will generally see recommended are really AV recievers, as beyond the actual amping, they usually contain additional switching, decoding and other electronics (DD/DTS/HD Audio/HDMI etc)

If you want something entry level the Sony DG820 (or its successor if it's been directly replaced) is actually a very good amp, not as powerful as other models, but certainly capable. In the UK Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha would be your main choices though, at the £500 price point.
Keep any eye out as occasionally last years models get huge discounts to clear, I got my RXV-1800 which was retailing usually for about £1000 for £550 clearance.

T-800 · 14 Dec 2009 at 23:54

What about an entry level 7.1 AV amp, such as the Denon AVR-1910? Price seems to average around £450...

http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=1&action=detail&Pid=414

Don't know if it changes anything, but I thought I should probably mention that I'd like to use whatever amp I get with a 50" 1080p HDTV for watching movies, as well as gaming and listening to music on my PC. Would I need some sort of switch for this? Or would it just be a matter of unplugging the PC and plugging in the TV?

I will definitely be replacing my satellite speakers in the future - Just don't have the sort of cash to do it now. I'm currently using a pair of crappy, old, blown Harman / Kardon desktop speakers, which I am looking forward to throwing out.

Alexrose1uk · 15 Dec 2009 at 00:01

Shouldn't matter, but if you want to use it for your PC, you need to consider how its going to get there? HDMI, or standard audio cabling from sound card. If its the latter, you need to make sure the amp you get has multichannel analogue inputs, most do but worth keeping in mind, most modern amps will support HDMI audio.

Most decent amps have internal switching and upconversion (basically you can have multiple inputs to the amp and everything gets sent over 1HDMI to the TV), worth checking your amps of choice at properly to make sure all the basics you need are covered!

Most also have multiple sets of different types of inputs, this will appear very scary and confusing at first!

From reading that page about the Denon to skim out briefly it should do what you need (and could have misread the analague section but definately has the inputs for standard cable 5.1 from your soundcard to the amp, and possibly 7.1)

BlackBat · 15 Dec 2009 at 01:18

T800, an amplifier is just that, it solely amplifies. A reciever has the additional components for decoding etc, so all AV Amps you will generally see recommended are really AV recievers, as beyond the actual amping, they usually contain additional switching, decoding and other electronics (DD/DTS/HD Audio/HDMI etc)

Wrong! In reference to 5.1 and 7.1 audio equipment, the difference between an amplifier and receiver is only that the receiver also has an inbuilt tuner (AM and FM usually, sometimes DAB). IMO you're best trying for a balanced system from the outset, you could pick up a bargain and go down the used route (with associated risks), or you could go for something new. I would suggest looking at either Denon, Onkyo, Sony or Yamaha equipment as far as amplifiers/receivers go.

T-800 · 15 Dec 2009 at 02:13

Alexrose1uk said:
Shouldn't matter, but if you want to use it for your PC, you need to consider how its going to get there? HDMI, or standard audio cabling from sound card. If its the latter, you need to make sure the amp you get has multichannel analogue inputs, most do but worth keeping in mind, most modern amps will support HDMI audio.

I have a Creative X-Fi soundcard of some description. All outputs / inputs are standard 3.5mm sockets. So I guess the question is, what sort of cable should I be looking to get to go from my PC's soundcard to a 7.1 AV amp? Like the AVR-1910, for instance. I should probably note that my soundcard doesn't have a separate socket for each of the seven channels.

Alexrose1uk said:
Most decent amps have internal switching and upconversion (basically you can have multiple inputs to the amp and everything gets sent over 1HDMI to the TV), worth checking your amps of choice at properly to make sure all the basics you need are covered!

As much as I agree that I should make sure that the amp I'm after has all my basic needs covered, I'm not really sure what those needs are, technically speaking... Other than wanting my HDTV and PC to share it, for movies, games and music. Sorry for being so ignorant on this subject.

BlackBat said:
IMO you're best trying for a balanced system from the outset, you could pick up a bargain and go down the used route (with associated risks), or you could go for something new. I would suggest looking at either Denon, Onkyo, Sony or Yamaha equipment as far as amplifiers/receivers go.

Definitely don't want to go second hand. Currently looking at the Denon AVR-1910, but not 100% sure yet...

Guest2 · 15 Dec 2009 at 09:06

Personally i would look on ebay and avforums classified ads for second hand deals. I use B&W 603 stereo speakers and they sound great. On ebay a while back i saw B&W 603 fronts, B&W 601 rears, a B&W centre speaker and a denon active sub go for £250 inc

I would then spend around £200 on an AV amp. I have no idea about AV amps though. This combination of speakers, even without the sub would be 100 times better than your gigaworks satellites

edit - also, if you are happydog on avforums then if you are considering the Yamaha RXV565BL 7.1 AV Receiver that outputs 90watts per channel be careful as it will probably have the power to easily pop your gigaworks satellites. I have recently learned that RMS in PC speaker terms and Hi-Fi gear terms is very different. A lot of other things like THD needs to be taken into account

I'm almost positive that you got a hi-fi amp that is rated at 20 watts per channel and connected some PC speakers rated 20watts per channel they would either break or sound distorted as hell at max volume

T-800 · 15 Dec 2009 at 19:09

Guest2 said:
edit - also, if you are happydog on avforums then if you are considering the Yamaha RXV565BL 7.1 AV Receiver that outputs 90watts per channel be careful as it will probably have the power to easily pop your gigaworks satellites. I have recently learned that RMS in PC speaker terms and Hi-Fi gear terms is very different. A lot of other things like THD needs to be taken into account

I'm not "happydog" on AVForums, but I'm not actually too worried about the amp I choose blowing my satellites, as I plan on getting better speakers in the future, anyway.

Guest2 said:
I'm almost positive that you got a hi-fi amp that is rated at 20 watts per channel and connected some PC speakers rated 20watts per channel they would either break or sound distorted as hell at max volume

I don't know if this helps, but the S750's speakers are apparently rated at 70 Watts RMS per channel. See below...

http://uk.europe.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=4&subcategory=113&product=9306

However, I don't want the purchase of an AV amp to be influenced by the limitations of my current satellite speakers, as they are only temporary until I can afford a better 7.1 speaker setup.

danyulland · 16 Dec 2009 at 00:35

Honestly mate get a decent quality amp £300 or so should be plenty (maybe £400 prices seem to have gone up since i was looking). As mentioned above probably best rather then getting a sub straight away to get an amp and put the remaining money towards a good set of stereo speakers (then add centres and rears at a later date).

Can you get away with bigger speakers? i bought a set of Mordaunt Short Avant 916i from the famous auction site, perfect condition £200 and there absolutely out of this world.