An enjoyable outing!

[DRZ]

The dark forces of the OcUK Elite have once again worked undercover to out a menace that has lingered amongst us. We used our pals at the News of the World to bribe police officers and intercept voicemail messages to bring you something we felt needed to be in the public domain.

We have all long known that Butters, Salvatore and Oracle were one and the same. Tonight, we bring you proof that the deception did not stop there.

We have some damning evidence that Oracle/Butters/Salvatore has returned as none other than Lucero.

The Evidence, as released at this time:

Oracle was a significant MG Rover enthusiast. We were not surprised to see an account over on the MG Rover forums called MGOracle when our suspicions were aroused in recent threads here. This led us to discover similarities in the posting style and knowledge between Oracle/Butters/Salvatore and the MGOracle account. Similarity is not conclusive, of course…

…but this is:

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=121201&highlight=.jpg

is remarkably similar to:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sh...//server2.uploadit.org/files/+username_oracle

Another Rover forum, the 75andztclub.co.uk boards provide yet more use of the mark1e uploadit account for a user called MGOracle on similar topics. There is no way this was simply hotlinking.

The pictures 404 sadly but the URL for the images is exactly the same. mark1e-frontmg.jpg is one of the filenames, and it can be seen that mark1e is used as a prefix for a great many images posted by MGOracle/Lucero/Oracle/Butters/Salvatore. One of those image prefixes was used here https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-172190.html? which confirms the Salvatore link.

Another interesting development which in the interests of fairness we will not be fully disclosing is that one image betrayed a string in a format used exclusively by Facebook – revealing that the MGOracle/Oracle/Salvatore accounts linked together by the same Uploadit.org account (mark1e) has a real name of Mark Fen***k. We know that Lucero’s real name is Mark Fen***k, not least because the facebook account we unearthed via the mark1e connection has a profile picture identical to his picture in the mugshot thread.

Did we mention that both MGOracle and Lucero both drive E60 BMW 530d M-Sports?

A slam dunk.

We don’t even need to mention that they have the same location (Bournemouth) or that both Oracle and Lucero are very good friends with “mrk1@1” on here (very suspicious to post in the same way to two completely unrelated posters by the way, and this was the beginning of the end for you). Mrk1@1 even confirmed for us that Lucero previously owned a ZT in a post on these very forums.

So, Oracle/Butters/Salvatore/Lucero, how is your rally scholarship going? How was the MANUAL 535d that remapped higher than the auto version?

Oh, look! My assistant has just arrived with some freshly made popcorn. I think I’ll sit back now and have a munch

 

[DRZ]

Is this really necessary?

Regardless of what the man might have been like what? 5+ years ago, right now the member know as Lucero is a good contributor to this forum.

What possibly have you got for outing someone like this? Self satisfaction? The joy of kicking your fellow man down a few pegs? Lulz?

I'm just not getting it.

If he was an all out troll and epic liar then he is fair game to be bought to earth, but in this case, it seems wrong. He's done nothing to provoke this and yet you've got ahead and put him in the lime light to be banned.

I'm disappointed in the elite for this.

Salvatore, who claimed to have a drive in a WRC team?

Oracle, who wrote a lengthy tome about a car that doesn't exist?

Butters, who was such an outrageous troll he was permabanned?

Short memory from the great unwashed but regardless, THREE permabanned accounts says a lot about a person, and last time I looked returnees were not allowed.

Called you a waaaaaaaaahmbulance, you can baww in there

Far too much time on the OP's hands I feel.

& Joshy sums it up well.

Sod "Hurfdurf for mod 2012" I say "Keep Lucero"

I cringe sometimes at posts on here.

You'd rather have a returnee fantasist troll than a decent thoughtful poster? Oooookaaayy then....

 

[DRZ]

I haven't been round this place long so have probably missed something, but the links in the OP are from 2006/2008. Maybe time to let it slide?

In some quarters it has been known for a long time but the evidence wasn't proof other than the gut feeling of a few.

I am merely the spokesman, a fall guy if you will, for those that wished to make public that which they have known for some time.

They are not partisan to any particular campaign for moderation.

 

[DRZ]

you know i did actually email the mods saying lucero was oracle or orecul shortly after he signed up but no one listened.

I've only just noticed how similar your sig styles are. Are you actually best mates or were you a trojan horse pretend friend to try and out him?

 

[DRZ]

Considering you were on these forums for years and never once came in here, popped in to shout about your new 1.4 shopping trolley and decided only to stay to constantly troll fox after he took such a dislike to your lovely new motor You'd be top of my list of posters to get the boot.

You only recently stopped arguing with fox at every ocassion like you had some point to proove !

Despite giving Robbie G a significant quantity of bile for being Robbie G, wikipedia copypasta is about as annoying as it is unoriginal. Even trolls post with more honesty, integrity and depth of post than a wikipaster.

Just sayin'...

 

[DRZ]

I ousted several of his accounts. you havent listed then all. yer i know him and there is a lot more to all of this than you probably appreciate.

...and yet you are friends on Facebook?

We have at least two other accounts plus another tranche of evidence is being unearthed surrounding another marque entirely.

If you wish to converse in private on this matter I can arrange for that to happen. Just say the word.

 

[DRZ]

indeed!

The way I see it, he's now 'the boy who cried wolf' and no matter how legitimate any of his posts are, they will be met with scepticism and mistrust.

Even if the mods don't ban him he will likely have to stop posting with that account.

He is certainly no stranger to the account creation process. I wonder if we will ever see a Lucero post again, and I wonder which of his many aliases will crop up next if he does re-register?

 

[DRZ]

Their sigs are suspiciously similar...

Unless they have two facebook accounts then I don't think so.

Not impossible though!

 

[DRZ]

Forgive my ignorance as I've not been here as long as most but what did Oracle etc. actually do? Just a compulsive liar? Prominent troll? Trouble maker?

TBH, Lucero has never stood out as any of the above... but perhaps I have missed those too

Is this a community in denial to a person maturing/growing up? Kids will be kids, we all have things we regret.

He is 31, so that means back then he was mid-20s. Hardly a kid!

Even in circa 2003 when he had a black Astra hatchback badged up as a Lotus, he would still have been early 20s!

 

[DRZ]

Wait... what?

S*** **Y - a 3 door black SRi.

Badged up as a Lotus.

 

[DRZ]

If Lucero ever posts again, hopefully it will be to tell us all about the McLaren placement he had back in 2006?

No?

 

[DRZ]

I'm shocked it's only taken 3 years to realise if I'm honest

Considering Lucero spells Orecul backwards (albeit spelling is different), that might have been an easier spot rather than spending 3 years of your life on this.

People change, I'd like to think I'm one of those people. If it's an issue for you then fine, I can stop posting. Personally, I'm not really too bothered about what people think of me. I've had plenty of help from this forum and I like to think that (more) recently, I've been a help to others too.

-1 internet for using the URL in my sig which I use only for hosting images here!

Oh and my name from Trust, but thats OK Can't all be one way traffic but then I have nothing to hide and don't lie all over the internet

How was the McLaren placement as Lotus Astra? How was the Rallying as Salvatore?

Perhaps forget all those specifics, why lie about so much for so long?

EDIT: just thought I'd say this took no time at all and there were 5 or 6 of us working at exposing you for the fraud you are

 

[DRZ]

McLaren placement? Lost me there.

The Lotus Astra was indeed just a 2.0 Sri with a Lotus Badge. I was 19. It had dbilas throttle bodies and some other mods.

Peugeot, well, I paid to do two intensive weeks in Sheffield on a Rally Driving course. I got through to the last stage but wasn't quick enough.

Some people have WoW, some have OcUK

I'm actually honoured that 5 or 6 of you took the time to expose me, and yet I'm the sad man? It's somewhat ironic.

Perhaps if you want to message me privately to discuss what I've done to upset you, we can talk about it face to face over a coffee.

Come to the RR, not that far from you in Dorset really! If you'd prefer something a bit more intimate then in time that can come to pass.

You posted on AOC in 2005 saying you were about to start a McLaren placement. I guess that was a lie then? (wait, why is that even a question?)

+1

Yeah because making up that you work at McLaren, are the next WRC big thing, drive a manual 535d (which doesn't exist) amongst a long, long list of things is nothing - but pointing that out to the community that takes those posts and respects him for it makes us the sad ones? Riiiiiiiiiiight!

 

[DRZ]

Does anyone else think that this is slightly pointless and pathetic: 5 or 6 people trying (and succeeding) to out someone, who then turns out to be repentant for his actions, so then they start taking shots at him for things that happened 6 years ago.
Now you want to get him to go to the RR, so you can then become best friends?
WTF.

He suggested coffee. He lives a good few hundred miles from me and the RR is the closest I will be for some time.

I asked the same questions that I asked in the OP.

I've got mixed emotions on this. The OP was all fire and brimstone but now I think that I am almost saddened? Dunno.

Not taking shots, just wanted answers.

Lucero - RR is the 23rd. Huge thread on it.

 

[DRZ]

There is loads more but tbh... whats the point? I'll stand by what I have posted and what I have posted on behalf of others.

If showing some compassion is spineless then so be it. Not like I am crumbling under pressure from moderation here am I?

Mixed emotions on what? The fact you thought the OP would bring people out in droves proclaiming "LOL EPIC WIN" but instead people are indifferent because they simply don't give a ****?

You should feel saddened. That you made the thread in the first place. It's like something you'd read on 4chan.

There is a back button up there

EDIT: Lets not lose sight of the fact I think Lucero should be banned into oblivion here! AT LEAST THREE perma'd accounts plus one more probable and I'd say that yeah, he doesn't deserve an account here any more.

 

[DRZ]

From what I have read in this sad thread L seems like a nice bloke -people change and for that they should be recognised. What good will banning him do? It's the Internet. He will just join up again... It would be a far greater accomplishment to win him over, but that appears to be the mentality amongst moderators here... Far easier to press the ban than try and engage with the person. Just something I have noticed.

I am amazed at the lengths people go to - this thread is beyond sad. There is the ability to check dupe ip address in the control panel if I am not mistaken, well, at least there was that facility back in 2000 when I was a mod on forums.

You'd probably be amazed at the lengths people don't need to go to to find out everything about you. Anyway, to address your good point rather than your crappy one, his posting style has definitely matured. He's just sent me a longish email which reinforces that point of view.

The problem is, we have a very clearly defined returnee policy. We've had a decent member banned recently, one the vast majority of posters would like to see reinstated. In Lucero we have someone who has trolled through probably 5 or more accounts, getting every single one permabanned. Hardly a sterling record and yet people are advocating that he stay?

Why is one banning not up for discussion when the ban was for the most minor of infractions and yet here we have someone that in the past has redefined what makes a bad poster and people don't want him to be exiled?

Like I said earlier, mixed emotions. The "right thing" is to ban, but is the right thing to forgive? Thankfully not my call.

 

[DRZ]

Ok guys, now I am back on my computer, I have the opportunity to post something a bit more coherent since posting from a Samsung C3050 is not fun.

I have to say, the whole approach to this is extremely OTT even for OcUK. If this was simply about a duplicate account of a permabannee then he could have simply been re permabanned at request to a mod and there really was no need for all of this. DRZ I am really trying to understand why have you and the guys gone to so much effort with this approach?

Also, you could have just asked me as it is no secret that I know Lucero and this has been clear to see on most of his accounts.

If we held the actions of everyone’s past against them indefinitely, be it on here or in real life, especially if they appear to, or noticeably have changed then I am sure all of us could start crossing names off our friends lists.

Lucero is not the same person he was when he was posting as Oracle and there are many reasons for this but beyond that, I don’t need to defend him. Rules are rules though so if the mods choose to ban him that is fair enough. Perhaps a poll, perhaps an outright banning?

I'm losing my mind staying up talking to people, replying to emails and stuff so this will be my last post of the evening on here.

OcUK has a long history of outing those that wish to pull the wool. Most often, this is done in public rather than behind the scenes. Tom with his lies around his cars, people posting photos taken in broad daylight and then claiming for them to have been just taken, at midnight, with the sun streaming in through the windows. People posting spec lists copied and pasted from other forums, the list goes on and that is just Motors. Tefal does a sterling job keeping the BSers over in GD in check. Never in private, always outed to the community.

A lot of what goes on is all between people that do not know each other so text can be taken out of context, especially when someone as unskilled at prose as I am is delivering the message. We've had people interpret things in many different ways but hey, thats life and part and parcel of the internet.

Let's make sure we know that the poster and the account can often be divergant. I post in a style that is very similar to how I am in the real world. I type how I talk for the most part. Others have an entire internet persona that they keep completely separate from the real them. I even know some people that have had an internet persona how they wanted to be in real life and then slowly tried to become that person. Each to their own, but in every case know that when stuff like this happens it is never personal and always between internets. Sure, everyone can let it get personal, everyone probably has and people have certainly blown up over stuff on the internet but it helps to remember that we're all pretty disassociated from it all sat behind our screens.

On the whole, we've had a Lucero account that rubs a few people up the wrong way but people believe is a decent poster - and a whole string of Perma'd accounts in his wake. I've had a private chat with Lucero tonight and I can't say that I hold the same opinion that I did at 9pm when I clicked the submit button. My opinion on the rules is the same though. A bit of a mess there.

To be clear on the whole "effort" thing. Some people have a head for details, others have amazing memories, others are great at spotting trends and similarities. When a few of those types of people share a common base like this forum and you talk off the cuff about things, certain things crop up. Just like they would if you noticed someone in your local that always turns up wearing a suit turns up in jeans. Gradually you build up a picture and notice things. It doesn't take much if anything to realise something is out of place or familiar and you THEN realise that the memory guy remembers x y and z. A quick google and you have some URLs, another quick search and there you go, more commonality. A little bit of geeky knowledge about filenames and stuff and you've got a lot of information in a *very* short space of time and you decide to act. This isn't like planning an operation over months, things just conspire to give you the information. Then you dress it up with some lulz about a shadowy elite and present it to the masses. Let the community be the judge of the evidence.

 

[DRZ]

/Skim read over..

Who hasn't overendowed themselves (or their exploits) over the internet in the past? Honestly, bit of a pointless thread unless the reason was to either embarass the person in question, or get him banned. A proper Motors post...

I do think that there a gulf of difference between saying you have 300bhp when you really have 295bhp and the sort of stuff that Lucero has posted.

I of course completely agree that "outing" a poster like this is 'sad and pathetic' whilst the actions described in said outing are entirely reasonable and exactly the type of trait we want in members here.

This forum did not tolerate Tom (my thread, btw), it did not tolerate Gav posting c&p'd spec lists (merlin), it did not tolerate portable sun guy (everyone?), it didn't tolerate mk1dubba and a long and illustrious list of others. I don't see a difference between those and this, bar the fact that there has been some time before Lucero was noticed as a returnee.

Debate the account on merit (or not) as you see fit, but you can't attack something ingrained in these forums that make them what they are - an intolerance of blaggers.

 

[DRZ]

Lucero posts a fair bit in the Mobile Phone forum as well, never caueses a single problem.

I don't understand why DRZ has such a strong agenda. Fine he has numerous accounts, but he has clearly proved he isn't the same as he was from 6 years ago!

Discretion can be applied

I don't really have an agenda other than a good old returnee hunt.

Ultimately, I'm just a spokesman for the shadow elite.

 

[DRZ]

Bearing in mind this was 2/3 years ago (i'm not up to speed on things here recently..correct me if im wrong on anything), and he hasn't directly insulted anyone (except possibly insult people's intelligence with his tales and previous usernames...), whats the point of this seeing as his current username comes across as a fairly mature poster and has done so for a while?

Just comes across strange dude, as if attempting to justify a potential ban based on actions way way way in the past, and by comparison with other banned users, whether fair or unfair. If so, thats more work for the mods, as I can imagine there are quite a few users on OcUK who have slipped past the radar, signed up again and reformed their posting style. Should they be banned too?

Live and let live for those who make the effort and "reform" themselves into posters who contribute in a positive manner to whatever forum/subforum they reside in. If they are thick enough to fall back into their old habits they will be found out soon enough, especially here.

I guess it's up to the mods, they will be more than aware of this thread by now.

I largely agree with you, but then I've seen other people (inc returnees) come back and get on OK and be banned, other returnees come back and be reformed and stay and so on and so forth. There are at least three high-profile posters that are returnees at the moment.

Then we have others that were banned where not even all of the mods agree.

Regardless of the outcome of all of this (for him, for my public image, for the community, hell even for JanesyB!), at least people are aware that there is a history behind the username and they can take any posts with the appropriate pinch of salt.

I love how people take the whole elite thing so seriously We're like the illuminati - there is no such thing