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AnandTech finally have Benchies for q6600 vs E6850

I made the decision to buy the faster dual core (E6850) as opposed to the Q6600 since i'm judging my needs on what i do now and what core will offer me the best performance the majority of times.

I would mainly Game, Watch Video, Surf, Office Applications.

I've tried buying furture proof products before but it never really works, as many have said by the time applications/games have been optimised to make use of multiple cores, the next generation of chips will be out, with god knows how many cores: 8, 16, 32????? i dunno....

So by then your quad will be obselete!!! Thats my opinion anyway
 
Meds said:
I made the decision to buy the faster dual core (E6850) as opposed to the Q6600 since i'm judging my needs on what i do now and what core will offer me the best performance the majority of times.

I would mainly Game, Watch Video, Surf, Office Applications.

I've tried buying furture proof products before but it never really works, as many have said by the time applications/games have been optimised to make use of multiple cores, the next generation of chips will be out, with god knows how many cores: 8, 16, 32????? i dunno....

So by then your quad will be obselete!!! Thats my opinion anyway


Quad cores can run up to 3.4GHZ maybe more on air now i beleive??? so do you think youll notice much difference over the duel core at 4GHZ and the two cores of the quad at 3.4?? its already been showed that the difference between 2.6(was that the figuare?)and 3ghz was minimal.

Games will be coming out on quads faster then you think and people think it is better to buy a more expensive duel then get the native quads?

Buy a cheaper quad which will still be able to perform in the games longer then the duels will and then buy a native quad?
 
(Nice spec you got Bigdave)

TBH i aint got a clue about how to overclock so i wont be doing that....
So ive made my decision its been purely as they come outta the box!!!

Too late for me anyway i already ordered the dual!!!

I am sure a Quad running at the same speed would be better
 
just to point out.

the games were run WITHOUT AA on purpose, on high end gear, to show the theoretical difference between framerates on different cores.

even without AA, you CAN NOT SEE, and no one cares about 190fps on a dual core 3Ghz compared to 160fps on a quad core 2.4Ghz. this is again on an engine that uses one core, at a later date the engine is being updated to use multiple cores which should put the quad core ahead in this specific benchmark, but either way, multiple, quad core, single thread, they will all perform the same when 4-8xaa is enabled. they will become gpu limited and say all give a fps of 100 on any cpu setup.

quad core is faster than the dual core in basically everything except a few benchmarks to show the theoretical power of the cpu on very specific single threaded games/encoding apps. add full AA that you would infact use with a 8800 or any other top end card and all games would perform the same.

utterly no need to get a quad core for gaming, at all right now. until games add advanced physics that will really need more cores to run and will disable extra bits there will be no need. but game makers rarely put in anything significant that won't run on average kit thats been around for 1-2 years. like ageia and some pitiful effects that can't be shown and make entirely no difference to the game.


now power wise, a penryn on smaller process that uses a buttload less power and in theory will overclock further and be cooler, with added SSE4 is the quad core to go for tbh.

the only reason theres any discussion at all about getting a Q6600 is because, frankly £160ish is just plain insane for that amount of juice, even if you won't use the extra power, we all like a great deal. now the other thing is, a Q6600 is so cheap that if you got one now, then sold it to get a penryn or phenom then well, the value won't be dropping massively any time soon so you wouldn't lose much getting one and selling it on in a few months.


one thing to look at is "marketing" hype words and that is all games that state quad core/multi core compatibility are.

even in the most massive of game setups in supreme commanded a quad core offers a very small increase over dual core. games don't separate a single game engine over multiple cores. game makers have split up there engine into being able to process say physics, ai, graphical info, dx info, drivers into separate threads and push them across cores. the problem is the main threads can't be split up further. so physics is one core, ai is one core, and no matter how far you spread everything else sound will never use much power, so while you can put more and more threads on other cores the main threads are stuck to one core only. we will not for a long time see 2 cores 100% faster than a single core, and a quad core 100% faster than a dual core.

its why to a point, a single/dual core with higher speed can be better, but only when you set the game to lower detail levels to show those differences basically. every game that showed significant speed differences did so without using highest detail levels.
 
stickroad said:
Nice Review. :)

E6850 for me, i would rather wait that bit longer when Quad is actually productive enough to buy what ever the price.

Most people who are getting Quad = Oh oh look at me ive got a Quad. :p

Fair point, I also still want to see the sheer performance increase in going from a Pentium 4 straight to a quad. Although, if the E6850 is faster in games, then, I'll have to have a think about it.
 
Cotti said:
I have to differ a slight bit here as I dont see the difference bettween buying duo now then native quad or quad now then native quad.

What about apps that use quad-core in between? Like HL2 Ep 2, Crysis etc.?
 
Cotti said:
I think the only real question you need to ask yourself is will quad games/apps come to fruition whithin the timescale you plan to own the chip? If the answer is yes get the quad if its no get the duo.

The answer is yes :)
 
drunkenmaster said:
even in the most massive of game setups in supreme commanded a quad core offers a very small increase over dual core. games don't separate a single game engine over multiple cores. game makers have split up there engine into being able to process say physics, ai, graphical info, dx info, drivers into separate threads and push them across cores. the problem is the main threads can't be split up further. so physics is one core, ai is one core, and no matter how far you spread everything else sound will never use much power, so while you can put more and more threads on other cores the main threads are stuck to one core only. we will not for a long time see 2 cores 100% faster than a single core, and a quad core 100% faster than a dual core.

Appears to depend on how well it's done.
Agreed most developers won't even attempt to do it (because it's more work) never mind succeed, but at least Valve appear to be attempting it:
(edit: sorry not allowed post the picture)
Single core: 23.0
Dual core: 44.0
(close enough)
http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/11/02/Multi_core_in_the_Source_Engin/4
 
It may just be to clear the old stepping stock, not sure whether to bag one of those because they're still good clockers just slightly on the hotter side :/
 
Yeah Im not worried by the stepping gon agrab one today if they are in the offers built the rig yesterday so Im just waiting on the cpu now.

EDIT: And its my birthday tommorow so hurry up and change the offers :D
 
Theirs a few games that take advantage of Quads but i wouldn't say their is a dramatic difference between a Dual and a Quad Core in them particular games. In the future their will be quite a big difference, but not at the moment.

By the time Quad Cores actually become productive enough to buy the Natives would have been out. They are the ones to get. ;)
 
“until games add advanced physics that will really need more cores to run and will disable extra bits there will be no need….like ageia and some pitiful effects that can't be shown and make entirely no difference to the game.”
Pitiful effects that can't be shown and make entirely no difference to the game! You’re still in denial I see about Ageia and refusing to acknowledge evidence. Just look at GRAW 2, Gears of War or the 100+ other games that make good use of Ageia physics for gameplay. How can you think Ageia physics have no impact on a game that’s just shocking.

As for advanced physics on the CPU the problem is the next level up of physics are not only too slow on single and dual cores but also to slow on quad. Things like full dynamic wind, dynamic cloth and liquids, soft metal all require far more processing power then quad cores provide. All quad core lets you do over dual core from physics point of view is process more rigid body on the screen at once.

Extra cores are not going add advance physics any time soon. All extra cores will do are small improvements here and there with extra rigid bodies. There will be improvements but it will be lots of small improvements over time not one giant leap. Even if a game is made from the ground up to use quad core for physics its not going be that advance over dual core physics.





“you CAN NOT SEE, and no one cares about 190fps on a dual core 3Ghz compared to 160fps”
You cannot see the difference on an LCD as depending on module your limited to displaying 60fps or 75fps for the most part. But if you a have a high end CRT you can see the difference between 190fps and 160fps.





“the problem is the main threads can't be split up further. so physics is one core, ai is one core, and no matter how far you spread everything else sound will never use much power, so while you can put more and more threads on other cores the main threads are stuck to one core only.”
That doesn’t make much sense. The problem is not main threads can't be split up further they’d don’t need to be. There is no reason main thread have to be stuck on 1 core. Don’t underestimate sound it require a reasonable amount of CPU power as well. 3Dsound can knock down FPS by as much as 20%. Just look at how much faster real soundcards are over CPU’s doing sound or cheap motherboard inbuilt sound chips. Full 3d sound requires a fair bit of CPU power. Another part people underestimate are network cards and how much CPU power they take up. A cheap motherboard network card has a large impact on speed. When you start working it out there are tons of threads. Bring on 32core CPU's.





“we will not for a long time see 2 cores 100% faster than a single core, and a quad core 100% faster than a dual core.”
More like never. Overhead means 2 cores will never even with perfect code be double the speed of 1 core. Same for quad over dual.
 
That Anandtech review has made it even harder to decide between dual/quad :(

I wish it was more straightforward, like choosing a C2D was, before Quads came along. I play games and do some encoding, so I'd gain and lose by moving to quad now.

I think I'll wait until Q4 before moving to quad, and spend the money on a holiday break now :D
 
[PTG]shogun said:
lol david is such a n00b ;) that he adds a spec in his sig that he hasnt yet built and isnt even sure about ;)


Nick the only thing im unsure about is wherther i will be able to afford the G90 when it comes out. Ive pritty much made my mind up on the motherboard.

Your just jelos tht youll have a GTS :P hehe



OOo btw i got given 1000 quid by my nan yesterday. So now im well set as i already had 900 :P
 
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The key point made by the review is that, for virtually all current games, the E6850 is faster than the Q6600 when both are at stock. Even some games which support quad cores and are heavily CPU dependent, such as Supreme Commander, are showing an advantage. In the case of Supreme Commander, if you normalise for clock speed then the quad would still only have a 13% speed advantage.

I think there are two key points to bear in mind here:

1. Until a lot of people get their hands on these two processors and start pushing them, we won't know what typical clocks are achievable.

2. Many games, even if they support quad-cores, will still be hugely graphics dependent.

Basically, if they both clock to within a couple of hundred megahertz of each other then, in games which support quads efficiently and depend a lot on CPU power rather than graphics, the quad will be a better bet. If the E6850 clocks significantly higher than the Q6600 or the game in question doesn't make decent use of the extra cores, or the games is largely graphics bound, then the E6850 is a better bet.

For example, games such as Crysis may well have good quad-core support but, if it's very graphics dependent or a dual-core can achieve 400-500 MHz more speed, the dual is going to be a better option.
 
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