And boomers wonder why millennials are bitter towards them..

[FoxEye]

I didn't say it was - though living with your parents in your 30s isn't really the same thing - that's not too different to a regular household except the child/children have grown up.

Now if you have a couple + kids + grandparents... thats what is generally meant by multigenerational...

Not (elderly) couple and their (man) child

I like how you praise "multi-generational" Asian families at the same time as mocking "man children" who live with their parents.

I guess you didn't want to be "racist" and thus had to dress the two things up as being utterly different. It's still one house shared between multiple generations, saving on the cost of running more than one household. Not so very different when you look at it that way. Still a massive cost saving.

 

[dowie]

But to give an easy example. If rentals are highly regulated, then BTL as a whole becomes less profitable. Especially for the "slum landlord" types. It becomes more risky. Less possibility for easy cash and exploitation.

Leading to less people being interested in BTL as a means to make a quick buck.

Could just as easily result in costs for the Landlords going up as some seek to make further improvements to properties, tighter checks on tenants (I mean if you're going to rent for a longer period then...).

None of that necessarily leads to much effect on the price of property.

I didn't say that every rental property was taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich, and I'm sure you can do better than that type of nonsense nit-picking. But a lot of the BTL types who target the low end of the market, ARE making profit from other people's misfortune.

Deny it is happening if you wish. But in that case we have very little to say to each other.

I'm not sure what that point is even addressing tbh...

 

[FoxEye]

Still think it's a time bomb. Fewer assets going forward. Everyone subscribes. Even to housing (rent)
At some point you're going to be stuffed.
We are going back on time where a few people have the vast majority of the cash.
We either get used to it. Or make changes. I bet we just have to get used to it.

Let's say I get to 65, can't work, ive been renting.
I might not have any pension. I might not have and savings. The young (who may have even less) can't pay for me.

Time to be put out to pasture


I'm scared of my health too.
It's why if I had to start again now I think I'd give up. I'd never pay off my house. I don't think I have enough 'healthy' years left.

Don't worry. Everybody I know who works in the NHS thinks privatisation is inevitable, not through necessity but through political direction of travel.

One recently said to me that, "Covid has given us a couple years reprieve, then we'll be back to pushing for privatisation again." And that within our lifetimes we'll see a US style health system beginning to form.

Work till you drop is going to be the situation for the lower-paid in tomorrow's UK. Writing is on the wall.

 

[FoxEye]

I'm not sure what that point is even addressing tbh...

I've made my points and nobody else is having such difficulty understanding them.

I don't mind people who disagree but the endless nit-picking and useless (but wordy) point-scoring in your posts makes reading and replying to you a chore. Forgive me for not bothering.

 

[413x]

Don't worry. Everybody I know who works in the NHS thinks privatisation is inevitable, not through necessity but through political direction of travel.

One recently said to me that, "Covid has given us a couple years reprieve, then we'll be back to pushing for privatisation again." And that within our lifetimes we'll see a US style health system beginning to form.

Work till you drop is going to be the situation for the lower-paid in tomorrow's UK. Writing is on the wall.

Yeah I think so too. The burden is becoming too big to share.
It will start by public supporting exclusions on the nasty habits. 'no help for you, smoking is self inflicted'. And then just escalate

No pension, private health system... Good Times are over.

 

[dowie]

I like how you praise "multi-generational" Asian families at the same time as mocking "man children" who live with their parents.

I guess you didn't want to be "racist" and thus had to dress the two things up as being utterly different. It's still one house shared between multiple generations, saving on the cost of running more than one household. Not so very different when you look at it that way. Still a massive cost saving.

Why not pay attention to the point instead of going off on one - WTF does racism have to do with this?

No a (man) child living with (elderly) parents is not a multi generational household as far as that term is concerned!

You're using terms you don't understand and which are pretty obvious in this context... i.e. that there is something different about a multigenerational household than a regular family household i.e. it's not 2 generations.

UK's ONS:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...esandhouseholdsstatisticsexplained/2019-08-07

multi-generational (for example, cohabiting couple plus children and elderly parents; or married couple plus their teenage daughter and her child)

US Census Bureau
https://www.gu.org/explore-our-topics/multigenerational-households/

The U.S. Census Bureau defines multigenerational families as those consisting of more than two generations living under the same roof. Many researchers also include households with a grandparent and at least one other generation.

 

[dowie]

I've made my points and nobody else is having such difficulty understanding them.

I don't mind people who disagree but the endless nit-picking and useless (but wordy) point-scoring in your posts makes reading and replying to you a chore. Forgive me for not bothering.

You made multiple points which I replied to - it's not understanding them that's the issue, it wasn't clear which point that part of your post was addressed at, perhaps use the quote function if you're going to address something as that wasn't clear at all.

 

[AiiR]

Work till you drop is going to be the situation for the lower-paid in tomorrow's UK. Writing is on the wall.

I think you are bang on there..

Retirement age is pushed back, pensions are getting worse and the savings products on offer are getting cut back too. By the time I'm in my sixties I'll be surprised if there's much of a civilisation left at this rate, let alone anything in the pot to retire on.

UK workers are going to same way as US workers, dispensable commodities to enable to rich to get richer. You only have to look at the big contracts being handed out by the UK government to companies that don't deliver a project, but to save money the solution is to put a freeze on benefits.

Our long term plan is to emigrate, I'm just hoping we manage it before everything collapses because it certainly feels that's the way its going.

 

[Haggisman]

So because its hard, we just let it to continue spiraling?

No. Because it's impossible we stop directed wasted energy towards trying to fix it by artificially reducing house prices, and instead try to fix the market itself so that the majority of people are catered for. That also includes not ruining those who have been able to get on the ladder

No matter how much you or I may want to, we cannot create a situation where everyone - regardless of ability or effort - is able to own their home. There has to be a cut-off somewhere. It may not be fair, but it's reality.

Someone living in the centre of London is never going to be able to afford the same living standards as someone living in e.g. Stoke on the same money. Someone who quit education and had kids at 16 is very unlikely to have the same earning potential as someone who spent another 5-6 years doing A levels and going to university.

On the flip side, someone who decides to move to Stoke so they can afford a better house... well, they have to live in Stoke . Someone who decides to stay in education and go to university potentially misses out on spending time with their kids whilst they are young enough to keep up with them. Decisions and sacrifices made on both sides.

The market not catering for low earners with low-cost, no-frills housing (does not mean substandard).

What you class as a "low earner" isn't necessarily the same as what someone else would class as a "low earner", it's all relative.

A £200k property in Mayfair would almost certainly be classed as "low-cost". That same £200k would get you a 3-4 bedroom detached house in other parts of the country.

Natural corrections will happen. And people will be stuffed. But it's still OK to be envious etc!

Absolutely - consider that envy to be the driver to improve yourself.

 

[Freefaller]

So what's stopping anyone else from doing something similar?

Nothing.

It's too hard. You have to put effort into something that might not pay off. Stop being so elitist!

 

[Narj]

Yeah I think things are not looking good at all. The thing about property value for your average homeowner is a nonsense though unless you are massively downsizing. In the grand scheme of things, it helps nobody.

I'd not want to be starting out from scratch right now. I've made a lot of sacrifices to get myself into a semi-decent position and still have a way to go. It's not encouraging when the government keep moving the goalposts by fiddling with pensions and/or tax relief though.

I don't know what the answer is for buffer fund or income generating cash savings if interest rates don't creep back up. Investing abroad I suppose but that's not something most people are going to be confident with.

 

[OspreyO]

I'm not going to spell out the rather obvious links between them. Shouldn't really be necessary.

But to give an easy example. If rentals are highly regulated, then BTL as a whole becomes less profitable. Especially for the "slum landlord" types. It becomes more risky. Less possibility for easy cash and exploitation.

Leading to less people being interested in BTL as a means to make a quick buck.

I didn't say that every rental property was taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich, and I'm sure you can do better than that type of nonsense nit-picking. But a lot of the BTL types who target the low end of the market, ARE making profit from other people's misfortune.

Deny it is happening if you wish. But in that case we have very little to say to each other.

So what regulations would you put on the rent of a million pound penthouse.

 

[FoxEye]

So what regulations would you put on the rent of a million pound penthouse.

The same rights as you'd have if you were renting a 50K property?

The right to not be evicted at short notice. The option of entering a long-term contract if desired. The right to a minimum standard of furnishings, such as white goods. The right to have things fixed promptly if they fail (eg plumbing, heating).

This isn't particularly difficult as evidenced by the countries that implement this (and much more) successfully. Heck Scotland has made a good start and they're on the same land mass

If it can't be made to work, how does Germany (etc) make it work? Are they able to do it but we can't? If so, why are we so different that we find regulating the rental market impossible?

 

[Lopéz]

It's too hard. You have to put effort into something that might not pay off. Stop being so elitist!

Indeed!

I had a good 2 year period where I floated about with little ambition, envious of those who seemed to be gifted opportunities and fell on their feet before snapping out of it and deciding to take control.

I took a massive gamble switching careers wholesale at the age of almost 40, going from a large established multinational with defined career paths in an industry I know like the back of my hand, to a small and relatively insecure company in a totally different arena that in all honesty I knew very little about even after all the prep I put in. In my first three months I was convinced I'd made the wrong choice and that I wasn't good enough - I've never felt like such a charlatan.
Happily my fears were never realised and I made a good choice.

I'll never be rich, I'll probably never really be that well off, but I'm definitely more secure and better off than I was two years ago.

Sure, sometimes bad things happen to good people, but generally those who demonstrate the right work ethic and apply themselves properly are those who profit, and that's absolutely how it should be.

 

[Woden]

It's too hard. You have to put effort into something that might not pay off. Stop being so elitist!

Ironically this is exactly the reason so many here are against fixing the housing market, its too hard.

 

[dowie]

Ironically this is exactly the reason so many here are against fixing the housing market, its too hard.

Who gave that as a reason?

 

[BongoHunter]

I'm probably more fussed about foreign investors and low occupancy rates on new builds now I think about it - I'd rather stick with boomers making a few quid and reducing supply than all the stock being purchased by Chinese investors etc. Some countries (E.G Canada) have already been able to get a handle on this, so we could too.

A total of 10.5 percent of the new build homes sold in 2014 were bought by overseas investors, 13.1 percent of the 2015 sales and 17.9 percent of the 2016 sales

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjABegQIAxAE&usg=AOvVaw0-9syMisZFOT-XBqNy36v2

 

[FoxEye]

I'm probably more fussed about foreign investors and low occupancy rates on new builds now I think about it - I'd rather stick with boomers making a few quid and reducing supply than all the stock being purchased by Chinese investors etc. Some countries (E.G Canada) have already been able to get a handle on this, so we could too.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.london.gov.uk/moderngovmb/documents/s58641/08b2c%20University%20of%20York%20data%20report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiV0vrAkP3rAhW0olwKHXKuAjkQFjABegQIAxAE&usg=AOvVaw0-9syMisZFOT-XBqNy36v2

Nah we just need to be less jealous of the Russian oligarchs who have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and worked a lot harder than the damned whiny millennials.

 

[Tombstone]

I do feel for the young of today, its so difficult for them to get onto the housing ladder. When thinking back to my youth, when I was 22 years old I bought my first house , a 2 bedroom terraced house, for £31,000 which years later I sold for £140,000 and bought my second house, a 3 bedroom terraced house, for £147,000. I stayed in that house for several years and then sold it for £207,000 and bought a 3 bedroom semi detached for £219,000 which is currently valued at £350,000. Its crazy now, looking back at my first house costing £31k in total, an amount which today would probably only cover a deposit on an identical house. We're not even talking a huge amount of time ago, it was only the mid 1990s

 

[BongoHunter]

I do feel for the young of today, its so difficult for them to get onto the housing ladder. When thinking back to my youth, when I was 22 years old I bought my first house , a 2 bedroom terraced house, for £31,000 which years later I sold for £140,000 and bought my second house, a 3 bedroom terraced house, for £147,000. I stayed in that house for several years and then sold it for £207,000 and bought a 3 bedroom semi detached for £219,000 which is currently valued at £350,000. Its crazy now, looking back at my first house costing £31k in total, an amount which today would probably only cover a deposit on an identical house. We're not even talking a huge amount of time ago, it was only the mid 1990s

How much do you think its cost you to get to this point (e.g what do you think the gain is once you take out your mortgage payments and initial deposit)?