And boomers wonder why millennials are bitter towards them..

[HACO]

This sort of comment is just madness and is quite annoying as someone who has sunk a very large proportion of my families money into property.

The house which a tenant rents is not their house, it is the owners house. If i want one of my properties back, then i will have it back, it is mine, it is not my tenants and i would expect that tenant to leave should i ever want it, within the bounds of the AST. There is this constant narrative that a tenant should somehow have some rights over a property beyond privacy within their tenancy period. Why should they?, again, it is not their property, it is the owners! I will also reserve the right to charge whatever i like for the use of my property - it is mine, bought with my money, it is no more the tenants than my own residential house, cars, or anything else is. The tenant can refuse to pay, that on the flip side is absolutely their prerogative.

Not sure what you mean about tax rates either, income derived from property is already taxed at your marginal rate if taken personally.

Having regulations doesn't mean you're not owning your property. It means the terms at which you can rent it out to people are regulated by the government. As they are now. These regulations can change, as they are currently so heavily in the landlord's favour. Look at other countries which have tougher regulations on renting. Doesn't mean the houses there don't belong to the landlords, it just means they have to operate in a regulated market, like many many other industries have to do.

I'm aware that as a landlord these changes won't be great for you, but the government isn't there to only look for the best interest of the landowner class. Other countries have decided that the rich landowner class can take a very small hit if that means providing fairer and better housing prospects for the rest of the population. We can do the same.

There are specific provisions in the tax code for rental income, yes, at some point it gets taxed as income after a certain amount of allowances. Every penny should be taxed as any other income. Landlords don't need a special tax break.

 

[Jez]

This is exactly the problem, written better than I ever could.

Those tenants are not an expendable commodity, they are people, families. And you absolutely have a duty of care towards them.

The only landlords worried about German-style regulations (where it works very well) are the ones that scrape by doing the very bare minimum with no regard for the people that are paying for their services.

I'd have nothing to worry about, i am a long term landlord with absolutely no desire to turf anyone out, and my houses are very well maintained and i'd usually respond and resolve anything same day, personally, if i at all can - i'd sign up to a 10 year AST if someone wanted, with minimal rent increases, as it gives me reassurance of that income for a long period (Stability works both ways, i really do want anyone renting from me to be happy).

What a landlord does need to be able to do, however, is to be able to liquidate anything if they did need to. While i hope that our financial situation is stable, the idea that a tenant has a right to remain in my property beyond our signed AST is a worrying thought, and i truly do not think can be right. The fact remains that it isnt their house, it is the owners house, it is owned just as much as someone's main residence is, this should never be muddied.

 

[Jez]

There are specific provisions in the tax code for rental income, yes, at some point it gets taxed as income after a certain amount of allowances. Every penny should be taxed as any other income. Landlords don't need a special tax break.

There are not, the situation is as you hope it is, all profit after displayed receipted expenses is taxed at your marginal rate. I don't personally have any finance but the breaks for this have also been largely eroded, as of April this year the taper has worked all the way down with regards to marginal rate interest relief, and is now only offset with a 20% relief credit.

 

[HACO]

There are not, the situation is as you hope it is, all profit after displayed receipted expenses is taxed at your marginal rate. I don't personally have any finance but the breaks for this have also been largely eroded, as of April this year the taper has worked all the way down with regards to marginal rate interest relief, and is now only offset with a 20% relief credit.

I would consider that a pretty good change, and that 20% relief credit will hopefully go away too.

 

[HACO]

There are not, the situation is as you hope it is, all profit after displayed receipted expenses is taxed at your marginal rate. I don't personally have any finance but the breaks for this have also been largely eroded, as of April this year the taper has worked all the way down with regards to marginal rate interest relief, and is now only offset with a 20% relief credit.

I do however respect that you don't have financing, so you only rent out a property that you fully own. Very few of the landlords that I know do this, as they would borrow against that at every change to buy more and more properties and turn them into rentals.

 

[ianh]

But when you look at statistics, you'll see that homeownership is significantly down compared to other generations at similar ages. That's not due to lack of trying or laziness or different choices (as boomers often say it is). It's because it's freaking unaffordable..

As has been mentioned plenty of times on here - It isn't "unaffordable" for the overwhelming vast majority* but they have to make a choice - go without many/all their modern privileges and be able to buy a dirt cheap house or alternatively, have nice phones, new cars on finance, big TV's, monthly Netflix etc, 1-2 foreign hols a year and then party every weekend etc and have no savings for a deposit!

It's an adult choice to make and many <30's choose the latter option and then complain that life is somehow unfair to them, because of their choice.

*there is a small % who genuinely can't afford to buy a house due to circumstances (severe disability, homeless etc).

 

[HACO]

As has been mentioned plenty of times on here - It isn't "unaffordable" for the overwhelming vast majority* but they have to make a choice - go without many/all their modern privileges and be able to buy a dirt cheap house or alternatively, have nice phones, new cars on finance, big TV's, monthly Netflix etc, 1-2 foreign hols a year and then party every weekend etc and have no savings for a deposit!

It's an adult choice to make and many <30's choose the latter option and then complain that life is somehow unfair to them, because of their choice.

*there is a small % who genuinely can't afford to buy a house due to circumstances (severe disability, homeless etc).

Median household income is £30k in this country, median house price is £238k. That's 8 times that. Assuming they can get a mortgage of 4.5x salary, that's £135k. So they need a £100k deposit. Good luck saving that on a £30k household income and please lecture me on how it's pretty affordable for vast majority of people.

Only if they didn't get that Netflix or iPhone, they'd have £100k in their bank account. Stupid millennials and their damn choices.

 

[BongoHunter]

As has been mentioned plenty of times on here - It isn't "unaffordable" for the overwhelming vast majority* but they have to make a choice - go without many/all their modern privileges and be able to buy a dirt cheap house or alternatively, have nice phones, new cars on finance, big TV's, monthly Netflix etc, 1-2 foreign hols a year and then party every weekend etc and have no savings for a deposit!

It's an adult choice to make and many <30's choose the latter option and then complain that life is somehow unfair to them, because of their choice.

*there is a small % who genuinely can't afford to buy a house due to circumstances (severe disability, homeless etc).

Agreed - far to many people are happy to bitch about the cost but not do anything about it (be it training, education, more hours, spending discipline, anything), they see it as impossible and don't try

 

[RandomMonkeH]

Nobody said it's literally impossible.

we had no choice. Renting isn't a choice for millennials, it's the only way to have a roof over our heads.

I never said it was impossible - Actually, it was you that inferred it. Also the misuse "literally" has got to be one of the most annoying "millennial-isms"

That's not due to lack of trying or laziness or different choices (as boomers often say it is). It's because it's freaking unaffordable.

I don't think many boomers say that at all. Most that I speak to worry a lot about their children’s future and have done what they can in their life to provide the best they can for their kids.

Scientific advancements happen all the time, irrespective of other things. We don't owe modern technology to inflated housing prices that benefited boomers or stagnation of wages that harms millennials. These are unrelated. You can have modern technology AND wage increases inline with living costs and a sane housing market.

That is really a very narrow way of looking at the world and not really true.

Technology is a product of human endeavour which is part of a much larger process and that will also involve property it's construction and commodity as an investment. Prices are also impacted by changes in social structure, ways of working etc, which again are entwined with technology. For an oversimplified analogy - if you were all working the fields by hand, living within walking distance and dying at 40, London house prices would not be so high.

Property, or more specifically land, is a finite resource (hence the well known phrase about investing).
Any finite resource is going to increase in value with scarcity - and there are five billion extra people now and climbing.


What you are doing is blaming a generation for taking advantage of an opportunity that was available to them in the post war years which isn't available to you now, while simultaneously ignoring the opportunities which are available to you now which were not available to them. It is almost the suggestion that it is somehow a conscious decision by one entire generation of people to intentionally persecute another generation forty years hence - which is nonsense.

About the only thing they could have collectively done to have a positive effect on house prices would be not to procreate - which I suspect would suck even more for the millennials.
It's this sort of attitude that stereotypes millennials as "selfish whiners" which is also a concept I find misinformed and short sighted.

If in 50 years millennials are being held accountable for the destruction of the planet due to excessive consumerism of technology, I doubt it would stop an entire generation from upgrading their 'phone or PC today.

I'm not a boomer, but the assertion they are implicitly responsible for the state of the housing market is non sequitur.

 

[ianh]

Median household income is £30k in this country, median house price is £238k. That's 8 times that. Assuming they can get a mortgage of 4.5x salary, that's £135k. So they need a £100k deposit. Good luck saving that on a £30k household income and please lecture me on how it's pretty affordable for vast majority of people.

I will happily,

NO-ONE BUYS A £238K HOUSE AS A FIRST HOUSE!

Hope that helps!

Instead most people buy a <£150k house with the majority being around £125k "for a first house". Depending on where you live it can be as low as £70k for a first house (Stoke on Trent with an average wage of £24k) and even in London £130k gets you a 1 bed flat

 

[englishpremier]

I don’t have to. I remember having just the four TV channels : BBC1, BBC2, Anglia and Thames.

I'm a millennial and I remember having a B&W TV with cream coloured finish. The first millennial are pushing 40 now, a lot with solid if boring jobs. it's the Gen Z that are wired. Very Emo and offended, but seemingly more willing to work in crap jobs, any job that millennials given that they grew watching their parents, and siblings loosing theirs in 2008.

 

[HACO]

I will happily,

NO-ONE BUYS A £238K HOUSE AS A FIRST HOUSE!

Hope that helps!

Instead most people buy a <£150k house with the majority being around £125k "for a first house". Depending on where you live it can be as low as £70k for a first house (Stoke on Trent with an average wage of £24k) and even in London £130k gets you a 1 bed flat

Please show me the £130k 1-bed flat in London (that isn't a shared ownership, obviously).

 

[ianh]

Please show me the £130k 1-bed flat in London (that isn't a shared ownership, obviously).

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-84354796.html

I do check things before I post BTW, it helps.

 

[HACO]

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-84354796.html

I do check things before I post BTW, it helps.

It's an online auction that starts at that price. Nice try. Properties sold on the same postcode are all over £200k.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/se19-2as.html

 

[ianh]

Fair enough - I'm still right about people having to "make a choice" on their lifestyle and that people don't spend £238k on a first house and that houses are available for cheaper than that, I just wasn't on the price of the cheapest 1 bed flat in London.

 

[Haggisman]

Why do you think lower earners can afford to just throw away their deposit? "It's only a couple £k".

Compared to the tens or hundreds of thousands a home owner stands to lose if there's a crash in the market, £2-3k is nothing

If you're not going to make even the semblance of effort to empathise with those who you're trying to **** over, then why should they give a **** about you?

Truly this thread is showing up those who have NO idea how the other half lives.

Thats pretty rich, coming from someone who appears to see anyone who's bothered to actually do something about their situation as the enemy.

Trust me, I've been in your position, with the scummy predatory landlord who we had to report to the council because the roof leaked and the gas hob was condemned. Guess what, instead of moaning about it on the Internet, I actually got off my **** and did something about it.

It's not all rosy, you'll find people such as yourself who weren't lucky but in general and on average, the property market in this country has massively outgrown the wages, making it more difficult to buy for millennials than boomers, much much more difficult. Home ownership used to be "get any stable job, save a little for a couple of years and you'll be able to buy a family home", and it's become "two people have to save every last penny for 10+ years and maybe, maybe, maybe, they're able to get something on 95% LTV".

You keep talking about a choice. Most of us never made a choice to rent, we had no choice. Renting isn't a choice for millennials, it's the only way to have a roof over our heads. This is why millennials are upset by attitudes like yours. Complain that home ownership is difficult, negative equity (which has been extremely rare in recent years) and maybe moving up in houses isn't easy, while government doing everything to benefit you with stamp duty holiday and schemes to keep prices inflated, and then you come back and say it's a choice that millennials are renting.

Maybe it's the millennials fault who made a decision to not be homeless

It's amusing how this has become an "us vs them" thing.

Not sure which side I should be on since i own my home but am also a millennial

The girl that lives next door to me, pays £200 a month more to rent than what my mortgage costs!

How much does she pay in maintenance costs?
How much does she stand to lose if the house goes into negative equity?

 

[HACO]

Fair enough - I'm still right about people having to "make a choice" on their lifestyle and that people don't spend £238k on a first house and that houses are available for cheaper than that, I just wasn't on the price of the cheapest 1 bed flat in London.

My point wasn't "can we find a few cities where income and property prices are still reasonable comparatively", of course we can. The point is that statistically, it's become much more difficult because property prices have outgrown wages significantly in recent decades.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/11/millennials-income-wealth-inequality/
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...s-costs-eu-pay-rent-transport-grocery-revolut
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...eers-office-national-statistics-a8557946.html

The sacrifices that you need to do right now to be able to afford to buy are a lot more than they used to be. This isn't millennials saving less than other generations, but millennials are earning less, therefore they have to save a much higher percentage. It's not about phones or Netflix, it's about wage stagnation and property prices skyrocketing.

 

[Kenai]

I will happily,

NO-ONE BUYS A £238K HOUSE AS A FIRST HOUSE!

Hope that helps!

Instead most people buy a <£150k house with the majority being around £125k "for a first house". Depending on where you live it can be as low as £70k for a first house (Stoke on Trent with an average wage of £24k) and even in London £130k gets you a 1 bed flat

Zoopla:

The numbers every first time buyer should know
£220,000:
This is the average cost of a first-time buyer home, according to our data. But, of course, it varies across the country.

Which:

The average property price for first-time buyers has risen by 21% in the past decade, according to new research from Halifax.

As first-time buyer numbers reach their highest in a decade, the average price they pay has soared from £172,659 in 2008 to £208,741 today (2018).

YourMoney:

This decline in buyers coincides with an increase in costs over the last decade. According to Halifax, property prices for first-time buyers have gone up 69% from an average £142,473 in 2010 to £241,025 today.

Most people are not buying £125k first houses, things have moved on in the last 10 years.

Edit - and if you wonder why is the average FTB price so high? Why aren't they buying the cheap property? Take a look at the adverts - every other one will say something like 'net yield of 5%', 'great investment opportunity', 'tenant in situ', 'expand your portfolio'. This type of property is getting swept up by the BTL community who can financially outmuscle and outmaneuver the people who are saving their £25,000 deposits by cancelling Netflix and not buying a £500 TV once in a blue moon.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't think the Boomers have much sympathy for the Millennial.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rt-football-5-side-boris-johnson-b530551.html


aaand they've banned indoor sports again. To hell with people's general health, that can all go to crap so a few old people get a few more miserable months of their life (that they'll spend alone due to being locked down).

 

[HACO]

C

It's amusing how this has become an "us vs them" thing.

Not sure which side I should be on since i own my home but am also a millennial

Also a millennial and will become a homeowner (once I find somewhere I like, saved up my deposit ). But I'm also aware I'm incredibly lucky that my skillset happened to become one of the most in demand ones, allowing me to become a high earner before I was 30. And I know not every young person in this country is as fortunate. So I'm able to put myself in their position (also in the position of the boomer who didn't need to be a very high earner before 30 to buy a home).