Another gun question

britboy4321 · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:04

Arguments at work .. here are the questions - you are judge, jury and executioner!

1) Does the phrase 'sub-machine gun' mean, by definition, '1 squeeze of the trigger = just 1 bullet' or something else?
2) A '12-ball shotgun' what does the 12 refer to? Is it number of mm of the barrel? Someone at work says every cartridge has exactly 12 ballbearings in it -- which I find very hard to believe.
3) Is it legal for army officers to take home with them pistols with live ammo? So they have them off-duty?
4) What is a 'dumdum' bullet .. one which is designed to spiral in the body, or make a bigger exit hole, or something else?
5) Hard one this. If I got a bullet and jabbed the firing pin with a house nail as I was holding it quite tight in my hands .. would it go off or just be pushed downwards by the nail?? (Sorry, wierd that last question)

ginandmilk · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:07

Can answer a few;
1) Sub Machine gun basically means small machine gun. Smaller size and they fire pistol ammunition not full sized rifle stuff. You can set a lot of them to 1 squeeze = 1 shot (semi-automatic) or set them to full auto in the same way you would an assault rifle.
4) Ye you're right. I think its just another name for hollow point ammunition .

CatMangler · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:11

2) 12 bore/gauge refers to the size of the internal diameter of the shot gun barrel

Priapus · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:12

britboy4321 said:
5) Hard one this. If I got a bullet and jabbed the firing pin with a house nail as I was holding it quite tight in my hands .. would it go off or just be pushed downwards by the nail?? (Sorry, wierd that last question)

You would have to put it in a vice and then hit it pretty hard with a nail + hammer or some sort. Doing it your way would have the latter effect you described.

The IPB · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:13

britboy4321 said:
Arguments at work .. here are the questions - you are judge, jury and executioner!

1) Does the phrase 'sub-machine gun' mean, by definition, '1 squeeze of the trigger = just 1 bullet' or something else?
2) A '12-ball shotgun' what does the 12 refer to? Is it number of mm of the barrel? Someone at work says every cartridge has exactly 12 ballbearings in it -- which I find very hard to believe.
3) Is it legal for army officers to take home with them pistols with live ammo? So they have them off-duty?
4) What is a 'dumdum' bullet .. one which is designed to spiral in the body, or make a bigger exit hole, or something else?
5) Hard one this. If I got a bullet and jabbed the firing pin with a house nail as I was holding it quite tight in my hands .. would it go off or just be pushed downwards by the nail?? (Sorry, wierd that last question)

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submachine_gun

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dum-dum

5. I don't think anything would happen unless you did it with enough force, I found some blanks when I was younger and had fun in the shed with a hammer. I was deafened for a day lol.

Glaucus · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:13

britboy4321 said:
1) Does the phrase 'sub-machine gun' mean, by definition, '1 squeeze of the trigger = just 1 bullet' or something else?

A submachine gun (SMG) is an automatic carbine, designed to fire pistol cartridges[1]. It combines the automatic fire of a machine gun with the cartridge of a pistol. An assault rifle, in contrast, uses an intermediate-power cartridge with more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle.

britboy4321 said:
2) A '12-ball shotgun' what does the 12 refer to? Is it number of mm of the barrel? Someone at work says every cartridge has exactly 12 ballbearings in it -- which I find very hard to believe.

Gauge
The caliber of shotguns is measured in terms of gauge (U.S.) or bore (U.K.). The gauge number is the determined by the weight, in fractions of a pound, of a solid sphere of lead with a diameter equal to the inside diameter of the barrel. So a 10 gauge shotgun nominally should have an inside diameter equal to that of a sphere made from one-tenth of a pound of lead. By far the most common gauges are 12 (0.729 in, 18.5 mm diameter) and 20 (0.614 in, 15.6 mm), although .410 (= 67), 32, 28, 24, 16, and 10 (19.7 mm) gauge and 9 mm (.355 in.) and .22 (5.5 mm) rimfire calibres have also been produced. Larger gauges, too powerful to shoulder, have been built but were generally affixed to small boats and referred to as punt guns. These were used for commercial water fowl hunting, to kill large numbers of birds resting on the water. Although relatively rare, single and double derringers have also been produced that are capable of firing either .45 (Long) Colt or .410 shotgun shells from the same chamber; they are commonly known as 'snake guns', and are popular among some outdoorsmen in the South and Southwest regions of the United States. There are also some revolvers, such as the Taurus Judge, that are capable of shooting the .45LC/.410 rounds; but as with derringers, these are handguns that shoot .410 shotgun shells, and are not necessarily considered shotguns.

The .410 bore (10.4 mm) is unusual, being measured in inches, and would be approximately 67 "real" gauge, though its short hull versions are nominally called 36 gauge in Europe. It uses a relatively small charge of shot. It is used for hunting and for skeet. Because of its very light recoil (approx 10 N), it is often used as a beginners gun. However, the small charge and typically tight choke make it more difficult to hit targets. It is also frequently used by expert shooters because of the difficulty, especially in expensive side by side and over/under models for hunting small bird game such as quail and doves.[16] Inexpensive bolt-action .410 shotguns are a very common first hunting shotgun among young pre-teen hunters, as they are used mostly for hunting squirrels, while additionally teaching bolt-action manipulation skills that will transfer easily later to adult-sized hunting rifles. Most of these young hunters move up to a 20-gauge within a few years, and to 12 gauge shotguns and full-size hunting rifles by their late teens. Still, many who are particularly recoil-averse choose to stay with 20-gauge shotguns all their adult life, as it is a very suitable gauge for many popular hunting uses.

A recent innovation is the back-boring of barrels, in which the barrels are bored out slightly larger than their actual gauge. This reduces the compression forces on the shot when it transitions from the chamber to the barrel. This leads to a slight reduction in perceived recoil, and an improvement in shot pattern due to reduced deformation of the shot.

britboy4321 said:
4) What is a 'dumdum' bullet .. one which is designed to spiral in the body, or make a bigger exit hole, or something else?

In the field of firearms, an expanding bullet is a bullet designed to expand on impact, increasing in diameter to limit penetration and/or produce a larger diameter wound. There are many expanding bullet designs, though the most commonly encountered are the hollow point bullet and the soft point bullet.

Feek · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:15

5) If you made it go off, you'd lose your hands.

2) The best way to describe how the size of the bore is worked out is to quote the wiki article: "The gauge number is the determined by the weight, in fractions of a pound, of a solid sphere of lead with a diameter equal to the inside diameter of the barrel. So a 10 gauge shotgun nominally should have an inside diameter equal to that of a sphere made from one-tenth of a pound of lead."

Regarding the number of balls in a cartridge - An average birdshot cartridge has around 240 small balls. A buckshot cartridge has 9 balls and a slug has a single solid lump of lead.

3) Nope.

Mucky_Pup · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:15

2) 12 ball or more likely 12 gauge is the gauge i.e. bore diameter
3) As far as I know for this country, no
5) Yes, it would set of the primer and propellent if the primer was struck with enough force, but wouldn't advise it, in a vice is better

Cyanide · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:15

1) Does the phrase 'sub-machine gun' mean, by definition, '1 squeeze of the trigger = just 1 bullet' or something else?

It's a machine gun that fires pistol calibre bullets

2) A '12-ball shotgun' what does the 12 refer to? Is it number of mm of the barrel? Someone at work says every cartridge has exactly 12 ballbearings in it -- which I find very hard to believe.

12 BORE shotgun - diameter of the barrell I think

3) Is it legal for army officers to take home with them pistols with live ammo? So they have them off-duty?

I seriously doubt it, they'll be locked up at all times

4) What is a 'dumdum' bullet .. one which is designed to spiral in the body, or make a bigger exit hole, or something else?

Flattens on impact to cause more internal damage

5) Hard one this. If I got a bullet and jabbed the firing pin with a house nail as I was holding it quite tight in my hands .. would it go off or just be pushed downwards by the nail?? (Sorry, wierd that last question)

It could do but you'd need a decent amount of force in exactly the right spot

Alex_6n2 · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:16

britboy4321 said:
3) Is it legal for army officers to take home with them pistols with live ammo? So they have them off-duty?

No.

ginandmilk · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:18

britboy4321 said:
3) Is it legal for army officers to take home with them pistols with live ammo? So they have them off-duty?

I'm not sure on this but I'd say no. You see it loads in films (mainly American ones) but I'd imagine everyone, officers included, would only have weapons with live ammunition when on firing ranges.

edscdk · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:43

Feek said:
5) If you made it go off, you'd lose your hands.

reminds me of a 'most stupid' tv program where a rather stupid guy stole a revolver and ammo, only the ammo was not for the gun, it was slightly bigger... so he tried to hammer the bullet into the revolver.. and lost half his hand..

iamdjdz · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:51

3) I'm not sure but it might be legal whilst living in Northern Ireland. It is legal for the Police here and I think also legal for them to have their gun concealed on their person most of the time.

Incindentally whilst in the TA we were always told that 'burst' fire was a setting on the SA80 but that it was the same as fully automatic - rather than say a 3 round burst as you see in video games.

Mat · 28 Jan 2010 at 13:51

5) I doubt a regular bullet would do much to be honest. A shotgun cartridge would just sort of go 'Fsssss' a bit if you tried to set it off without putting it in a gun. The restriction of the barrel forces the explosion in only one direction otherwise the charge just sort of goes in every direction and just causes the cartridge to expand. I doubt you would be allowed to carry a load of cartridges in your pockets, when at a range, otherwise.

Vulcan · 28 Jan 2010 at 15:35

Mat said:
5) I doubt a regular bullet would do much to be honest. A shotgun cartridge would just sort of go 'Fsssss' a bit if you tried to set it off without putting it in a gun. The restriction of the barrel forces the explosion in only one direction otherwise the charge just sort of goes in every direction and just causes the cartridge to expand. I doubt you would be allowed to carry a load of cartridges in your pockets, when at a range, otherwise.

Not quite. It was tested by the Mythbusters with .22LR rounds using electronic denotation. With out the rifle though, Newtons third law of motion becomes must more apparent with the case and bullet projectile flying off in opposite directions with near equal forces. If the projectile hit someone it could still kill.

Strife212 · 28 Jan 2010 at 15:38

ginandmilk said:
I'm not sure on this but I'd say no. You see it loads in films (mainly American ones) but I'd imagine everyone, officers included, would only have weapons with live ammunition when on firing ranges.

In America you can carry around a gun no problems thats why.

Aod · 28 Jan 2010 at 15:57

Since all the questions except 4 have been answered well, I'll answer that:

During the british occupation of india, the troops stationed near Dum-Dum (where there was an ammunition factory) found that their Spitzer (pointy) rounds were much more effective if they chopped the top off and made Cross-Incisions in the head of the round, which caused the slugs to expand and create a large wound track, resulting in a more rapid kill.

Since then, the science has been "perfected" into hollowpoints which as you know, have a hollow cavity at the front, which, when combined with the hydrostatic shocl of hitting a human body, comprised mostly of water, causes considerable expansion for maximum energy transferrance, resulting in much greater chance of a torso-shot to be fatal.

Meridian · 28 Jan 2010 at 16:20

Yes, you can make a round go off with a hammer and nail, but not a nail on its own. In the days of my (reckless and stupid) youth I managed to extract the percussion cap from a live 12-bore cartridge. Yes, I removed shot and charge first: even at that age I wasn't completely stupid. Put the cap into a hole in a desk, and then whacked a nail into it with a hammer. One surprisingly loud bang ensued.

M

platinum87 · 28 Jan 2010 at 16:50

britboy4321 said:
Arguments at work .. here are the questions - you are judge, jury and executioner!

1) Does the phrase 'sub-machine gun' mean, by definition, '1 squeeze of the trigger = just 1 bullet' or something else?
2) A '12-ball shotgun' what does the 12 refer to? Is it number of mm of the barrel? Someone at work says every cartridge has exactly 12 ballbearings in it -- which I find very hard to believe.
3) Is it legal for army officers to take home with them pistols with live ammo? So they have them off-duty?
4) What is a 'dumdum' bullet .. one which is designed to spiral in the body, or make a bigger exit hole, or something else?
5) Hard one this. If I got a bullet and jabbed the firing pin with a house nail as I was holding it quite tight in my hands .. would it go off or just be pushed downwards by the nail?? (Sorry, wierd that last question)

1) a SMG is basically an auto carbine, with a catridge filled with low power ammo i.e. 9mm. A machine gun is belt fed usually, and an assult rifle is just a submachine gun which has more powerful rounds

britboy4321 · 28 Jan 2010 at 17:06

Thanks guys.

For a bonus point ..

What is the phrase for '1 pull of the trigger = 1 bullet, but you don't need to manually reload for the next pull of the trigger to shoot the next bullet' then please if its not a 'sub-machine gun'?

Sorry if I'm being slow ..