Another stupid purchasing decision

[Lopéz]

Honestly, I will never learn.

Buy a car, that I don't need, that is not particularly fast, not very interesting, not very useful, not really cheap, not especially good, and definitely not that nice looking and drive it 950km home with no breakdown cover with no idea how to register it in one of the most bureaucratic nations in Europe.

Oh well. Done now innit.

My new wagon:

950km later without missing a beat*, it's in Vienna.

Now stashed in an underground Park & Ride because it's illegal to park on the street without a resident's permit. And I cannot get one of those because the vehicle isn't Austrian registered, so I am in one of those chicken/egg scenarios until I can work my way through the red tape of import registration here.

Swathes of alcantara:

Next steps - see if I can convince Austria that EU law really is law and not just advice, and that they have to accept a foreign MOT to register it here.
Ha, good luck with that!


(actually this is a massive lie. I stopped for fuel and it steadfastly refused to start again until I sat there for 15 minutes and tried it again)

 

[Lopéz]

It is a Lancia Y 1.2 16v Elefantino Rosso.

As for why, I am not entirely sure. I'll let you know if I find out

 

[Lopéz]

You know what, I was surprised - it sits quite happily between 130-140km/h on the motorway, there's not masses of wind noise either. Seats are quite nice.

The brakes however, are atrocious (they're all like that sir) and modifying in Austria is illegal without an IVA

 

[Lopéz]

Poor little Lancia.

I'm doing it a disservice really - it's practically spotless outside (like, really) and other than the usual alcantara wear on the bolster the interior is in great shape too.

 

[Lopéz]

So now how do we deal with the administration side.....
As the car is imported, first thing I need to do is register it in Austria.

Registering an imported car in Austria

This is more complicated than it should be, because Austria has its own separately maintained database of approved vehicles.

This first registration process must be carried out by the "General Importer" which is, in my case, Fiat.

Fiat need:

• Certificate of Conformity (I do not have one of those)
• Foreign V5 (I do have one of those)
• Receipt that proves it is mine
• Austrian MOT, officially known as the §57a-Begutachtung Pickerl

I have challenged the 4th point and told them that under EU directives, surely an MOT from any EU member state should be admissible.
Fiat have curtly responded something that basically translates to "We'll see about that"

Once they have inevitably knocked back my application, I will be forced to get the Pickerl.


MOTing a car in Austria - the §57a-Begutachtung Pickerl

The first thing the MOT station will ask me is why I am trying to MOT a vehicle that is not registered in Austria.
There will then be a Denglish discussion where I explain why I need this service, they will then doubtless ask me for documentation that I do not have or does not exist.

The vehicle will then fail the MOT because of..... many things, despite being in excellent condition.
Austria has the strictest safety inspection in Europe, so the car is absolutely guaranteed to fail on a multitude of things.

The pictures that @JonRGV250 posts up here would never ever be seen over here, the standards are just too strict.

Once (if) I get the fabled §57a-Begutachtung Pickerl, I have to go back to Fiat and try again with the first time registration service.

Fiat will relieve me of 200 Euros and I move on to the NOVA.


NOVA

Once I have my printout from Fiat saying the car now legally exists in Austria, I cannot tax or insure it until I have paid the NOVA tax - payable on all vehicles newer than 1991, brand new or used, when first registering in Austria.
This has to be done (Appointment mandatory, payment in cash only!) at the Ministry of Finance.

They will then argue with me about the amount payable, and eventually I will be relieved of some money and allowed to leave.
They then tick a box in the database that says "The NOVA has been paid and this vehicle can be legally registered"

Hang on, we've already registered it with Fiat haven't we?

Oh no no no no sir, you misunderstood. Fiat are simply confirming it complies to the EU manufacturing standards and that it exists as a tangible object in the country.
Now you have to actually register it to get an equivalent of a V5.

Great so that's free, right, just like in the UK after import formalities are all done?

No it's 200 Euros.

This is all seeming like too much work and expense, I will buy a car already in the country.

Well you can do that but you still have to pay 200 Euros.

What?

Yep, every time you buy/change ownership of a car in Austria, getting a new V5 in your name costs 200 Euros, regardless of the situation.

Christ on a bike.

Let's get that bit done then.


kFZ Zulassung:

So I have to go an insurer (doesn't really matter which one) get the car insured (this also includes VED, it's rolled into insurance costs here) and they conveniently do the registration at the same time, give you some number plates (number plates are unique and are not transferred with vehicle ownership) and off you go.

Bearing in mind I am 44 years old this car will cost me NINE HUNDRED EUROS A YEAR to tax and insure. I ran some comparison costs through Durchblicker (our version of Compare the Market) and anything remotely fast or polluting cost a staggering amount.
An expat mate of mine is paying 4k a year to tax and insure a 20 year old VW Sharan

Motoring costs (costs of buying, running, in fact doing anything with a car) here are just eyewatering compared to the UK, I am still having trouble processing it all really.


So this, in theory is what awaits me.

I will update as an when this thrilling saga hits a new plot twist

 

[Lopéz]

Have you considered moving?

Honestly, I don't know why people here buy cars. I think it's because they do not know any different and are just accustomed to paying the exorbitant fees here for everything.

 

[Lopéz]

You knew all this before you did it though?

I had a general idea yep, let's see how close it is to reality!

 

[Lopéz]

What happens if you modify it?

You fail the MOT if they are not previously approved modifications.
If you are stopped at the roadside with undeclared mods you are in a whole world of trouble.

I mean, this is a country where debadging a car is illegal...

Hi, yes I’d like to buy a Punto Sporting but could you possibly make it look like it was cobbled together from about 4 other cars

This 100 times over. Let's throw a bit of Punto/New Delta/Kappa into a Generative AI tool and see what image comes out the other end - it's a Y.

EDIT

It looks less "weird" in real life, somehow.

 

[Lopéz]

friend lives in vienna and funnily enough she just sold her punto,
as she put it , now doesnt have to pay all the silly costs for running the car and now not needing to rent a private garage to park it in.
she uses public transport or walks most places, any long journeys she rents a vehicle , saves loads of money.

Yep I cycle to work, and use public transport or walk for pretty much anything else.

The only time I ever feel I "need" a car here is if I want to get out and explore the rest of Austria easily, or buying bulky stuff/furniture.

Is there a reason you didn't just buy a car in Austria?

Yes - there is generally awful availability across the board, prices are bonkers, and there's very little in the way of novelty/less common vehicles available. I wanted something not necessarily interesting but a little bit different.

The used car market here is really nothing like the UK.

I submit my documents to Fiat in the morning. Not feeling particularly confident but let's see.

 

[Lopéz]

Registering an imported car in Austria

This is more complicated than it should be, because Austria has its own separately maintained database of approved vehicles.

This first registration process must be carried out by the "General Importer" which is, in my case, Fiat.

Fiat need:

• Certificate of Conformity (I do not have one of those)
• Foreign V5 (I do have one of those)
• Receipt that proves it is mine
• Austrian MOT, officially known as the §57a-Begutachtung Pickerl

I have challenged the 4th point and told them that under EU directives, surely an MOT from any EU member state should be admissible.
Fiat have curtly responded something that basically translates to "We'll see about that"

Once they have inevitably knocked back my application, I will be forced to get the Pickerl.

Amazed. Genuinely lost for words, I thought that part would be a proper mission.
Submitted my docs and had it back within the hour.


Next up - battle with the Finanzamt!

 

[Lopéz]

Yeah, it's part of the reason i was nervous adding stuff to the Jeep with the logic being to remove it come MOT time. However since i've crashed, it seems that the things i'd like to do (bigger wheel arches/side steps) and only a "notify" process and relatively straight forward.

Sounds like the Spanish have a more relaxed approach. You lose your registration doc if you do it here. Apparently there are some places that will do what is effectively and inspection and you get the modification legally added to the car's logbook. Still a ball ache compared to the UK for example.

The only modification I'd consider is uprated dampers - though to be honest it actually rides firmer than I expected it to - I had no qualms about throwing it around through the back lanes on the way home.

 

[Lopéz]

Aren't Lancia still popular in Italy ? so parts/garages just on your doorstep - maybe a col or 2 in the way.

Yes there are piles of these things in Italy (I didn't buy one there as the Italians traditionally do not look after small cars in any way.
Also, 80% of the mechanical parts are the same as a Punto Sporting, which is a big help.

Lancias are/were still imported into Austria but in very small numbers.

Oh yeah, might have over simplified it, effectively you need the mod done by a garage with full paperwork, then it has to go through a new inspection to be formally approved and added to the logbook.

Just that anything like arches/tyres are classed as "notify" rather than "modification" and so it only costs around €200 to get it all formalised. If you start touching engine/suspension then prepare to go through a world of pain, which is why a lot of tow bars aren't "official"

Ok so that sounds like here then. Some stuff is flat out not allowed, other things have to be either notified or inspected (mostly, inspected ) and added to the car's logbook.

Broadly speaking Austria does not really have a car culture, outside of extremely well maintained classics which are also far from abundant.

Cars are seen by the overwhelming majority as a tool which one needs to perform certain tasks and functions, and to have anything that is bright/loud/modified/fast is considered quite antisocial and an infringement on the life enjoyment of normal people.
Taxation also puts such cars in the "WTF" running cost category so people really don't bother.

For example, you just do not see hot hatches here - I have not seen a single Civic Type-R, or a Focus RS/ST, or a Megane Trophy/Cup/Whatever of any description, in 4 years of coming here regularly and then 2 years living here. Not one!

Never seen a 205GTI, Clio 172, Yaris GR4..... sure, these cars do exist and can be purchased in Austria, but I have never seen one which is so different to what I am used to.
Austria is an ocean of monochrome VW/Audi/Mercedes and Skodas.

 

[Lopéz]

In a collision, there you are. In an explosion, where are you?

what???? Please explain

It's an old fashioned expression from the South Wales valleys. It means it's one thing to be in an unpleasant situation where you at least know what's going on (a collision) but an entirely different one being completely blindsided by an unexpected and catastrophic event (an explosion)

My old boss used to say it all the time, he had an arsenal of phrases like this.

 

[Lopéz]

honestly I thought this was some kind of Datsun or Mitsubishi - then when I saw it was a Lancia it instantly became a beautiful car

Yeah this is what I went through.

It's ugly
Yeah but it's a Lancia
It's definitely a bit weird looking at the last
Aye but, it's a Lancia innit?
It's not that bad to look at
Yes, it's a Lancia



Waiting for a reply from the Finanzamt to my "can I pay you the money I owe you please?" enquiry.

In the mean time, I've

Replaced the boot lock (it was jammed, would be an MOT failure here)

Replaced the rear wiper (also jammed, also an MOT failure here)

Bought some winter wheels (Winter tyres, when conditions warrant them, which is fairly often between October and April, are required here)

Replaced the CD player with a Bluetooth unit

Ordered new mats to replace the worn ones

Drove it to Slovakia at the weekend, no issues. My mother in law's only comments were "Why would anyone buy a car that only has two doors"

 

[Lopéz]

Sounds like Belgium, possibly worse, but most likely similarly frustrating.
In the old days before the internet (2019 in this case), you had to physically go to the customs office in Brussels to import the car and pay 3 cents (cash only) to receive the document, which needed stamping at the MOT (you must MOT an imported car, without exception), followed by insurance.
Then you could send off for a number plate, and a rear one arrives in the post and you have to pay the postman €30 cash. (You have to make your own one yourself).

Belgium is very similar to Austria - very high used car prices, little in the way of fancy stuff due to insane taxes & insurance and very strict modification laws. Also requires an EU Certificate of Conformity. At least now you can get your import form online now!

@Lopéz which country did you import it from?

Yes this all sounds very familiar and similarly frustrating.

This car is originally from Poland.

No response from the Finanzamt from my request to pay the NoVA tax, so I have just booked an appointment.

On their website it says that cars between 10 and 30 years old must be valued independently by a "Car Expert" whatever one of those is - it is not allowed to provide your own estimation of value.

I contacted the 3 listed approved "Car Experts" in Vienna - 1 does not serve private customers, 1 is retired and the other said he was not interested

I then did a bit of searching, and found a case (on the Finanzamt's own website ) that sets precedent, stating that the NoVA is an "honesty based tax" and that the taxpayer is responsible for giving an appropriate vehicle valuation and that the state cannot refuse this valuation. If they doubt the credibility of the valuation they can subsequently investigate and take you to court, but they must accept your number.

No idea how that will pan out in reality so I have printed off the case and will take it with me and see what happens when I tell them I do not have a valuation from a court sworn "Car Expert"

 

[Lopéz]

This is currently my favourite thread in motors, do keep us posted please

I am to please

This is all just a dry run for when I import my 42 year old XR3 at the end of the year, which is going to be a BARREL OF LAUGHS I am sure!

I did some scary maths yesterday

Amount spent on going to Poland and getting the car back to Austria

• €28.99 - Flight
• €17.64 - First Class Train to the bloke's town from Warsaw
• €2.00 - Local tram in Warsaw
• €2.04 - Local bus in Warsaw
• €3.76 - Can of Monster and some crisps
• €2.55 - Another can of Monster and some more crisps
• €11.46 - McDonald's on the way home
• €124.96 - Fuel
• €12.33 - Czech Motorway Vignette
• €11.50 - Austrian Motorway Vignette
• €217.23 TOTAL

Registration related BS - this number will GROW ENORMOUSLY

• €19.99 - Austrian registration plate holders (Polish plates are smaller)
• €77.70 - 1 Month Parking in an underground garage (can't park on the street without a permit, can't get a permit on a foreign registered car)
• €180.00 - Datenauszug aus der Gehnemigungsdatenbank (A bit of paper from Fiat that says yes, this is indeed a Lancia Y)
• €277.69 TOTAL - WILL INCREASE

Stuff it might/will fail a future Austrian MOT on so might as well buy it now and try and minimise the chance of failure - this number will also GROW ENORMOUSLY when it goes for the Austrian Pickerl

• €45.12 - Rear wiper motor (EXTORTIONATE postage costs for this, more than the item!)
• €39.68 - Boot lock (EQUALLY EXTORTIONATE postage costs for this from Italy, again more than the item!)
• €11.27 - Windscreen wiper
• €10.07 - Warning Triangle
• €11.09 - First Aid Kit
• €10.66 - High Vis vests
• €6.40 - H1 Bulbs
• €35.99 - Lambda Sensor
• €170.28 TOTAL - WILL INCREASE

Stuff I just fancied doing

• €29.22 - MP3/USB/Bluetooth Head Unit
• €31.00 - Floor Mats
• €60.22 TOTAL - WILL INCREASE

Add that the the cost of the car itself and I have already spent eleventy million Euros and I still can't legally drive it

 

[Lopéz]

No response from the Finanzamt from my request to pay the NoVA tax, so I have just booked an appointment.

On their website it says that cars between 10 and 30 years old must be valued independently by a "Car Expert" whatever one of those is - it is not allowed to provide your own estimation of value.

I contacted the 3 listed approved "Car Experts" in Vienna - 1 does not serve private customers, 1 is retired and the other said he was not interested

I then did a bit of searching, and found a case (on the Finanzamt's own website ) that sets precedent, stating that the NoVA is an "honesty based tax" and that the taxpayer is responsible for giving an appropriate vehicle valuation and that the state cannot refuse this valuation. If they doubt the credibility of the valuation they can subsequently investigate and take you to court, but they must accept your number.

Today was Ministry of Finance day.

Last Monday I sent them an e-request to process my NoVA payment. I sent them the Data Extract from Fiat, and the two necessary tax forms, but I forgot to attach the receipt proving how much I paid for the car.
After getting no reply and booking an appointment I arrived today.

This is how the conversation went (but in German obviously)

"Hi, I need to pay the NoVA, sorry my German isn't great but I understand most things"

SHRUG "You submitted your application in Finanzonline, or?"

"Yes, but no reply"

"Yeah, well" SHRUG

"You have to much to make, or?"

"Exactly. It's 126 Euros, have you got cash?"

"Yes"

"Don't pay me, sign this paper, take it to the 3rd floor, pay, then come back"

/went to the 3rd floor, paid, got my receipt stamped.

"Hi, it's paid"

"Good, I just need a copy of your ID"

"Passport ok?"

"It will do"

"There you go, done. You can register your car. Bye"


No request for a valuation report. No request for an "MOT". No request for a purchase receipt. Nothing!

They even have a poster on her office door listing all the documents you need and she did not ask me for even 30% of them

Gotta love bureaucracy!

 

[Lopéz]

And as a preview of the next thrilling episode:

Now the car is officially imported, and the NoVA is paid, it can be legally registered. It must be insured first, and then registered (number plates here do not stay with the vehicle for life, vehicles get a new registration number with every change of ownership)

To perform this registration, aside from forking out over 200 Euros, I need to provide all the documentation I've slowly been assembling.
One of those documents is the MOT and of course I have a Polish MOT not an Austrian one, and I would like to get the thing Austrian registered ASAP so needing an Austrian MOT could be a hurdle.

So today I email bombed six different Vehicle Registration offices and hopefully I will have some yes/no answers back tomorrow!

 

[Lopéz]

I dunno really. I just fancied something a bit different. I know I've joked about the car here but it's genuinely in fantastic condition inside and out and drives really well.

I'm also a glutton for punishment and wanted to see how this whole import process really works here and if it was as much of a ball ache as it looks on paper (or worse, if it was even more)

Plus buying a car, unseen, from the wilds of Poland and then driving it 950km home seemed like a fun little adventure (and it was!)

 

[Lopéz]

Fantastic replies from the Registration firms by the way - all were sent the exact same question, word for word.

"Hi, I've imported a car from Poland, all the import procedures are complete so I need to now insure and register it. Can I do that with a Polish MOT or must it be an Austrian one?"

Response 1:

"Good day.
If the vehicle has never been registered in Austria, it would still have to be entered into the Austrian database by the general importer."

Yeah, not the question.

Response 2:

"Dear Customer,
According to your information, there is nothing wrong with this; you can use these documents to register the vehicle or have it insured.
We also ask you to translate the purchase contract into German"

Response 3:

"For approval we require an Austrian report in accordance with Section 57a. Unfortunately, we cannot accept a Polish report. The other documents should be correct. The insurance can then be taken out directly with us.
If the vehicle was insured abroad, we need confirmation of the period and whether there was any damage in German or English."

Response 4:

"We'd love to create an offer for you.
To do this, I will need the following information from you, which I will forward to a supervisor in your area:
First and Last Name:
Birth date:
Postal code:
Location: Vienna
Telephone number:
Email address:
Contact request (email or telephone):

Notes on insurance coverage:
For which area (car, residential, life, health, commercial,...) do you want an offer: motor vehicle insurance"

Yeah again..... not what I asked, was it?

Response 5:

"Hello,
You are welcome to insure and register the vehicle with us
Please bring proof of insurance with you when registering.
Thank you"

Unconvinced they read the question.

Does anyone actually read emails past the first line?