Any builders roofers want to advise me on the state of this garage roof?

[bitslice]

your expensive kiln dried timber will just absorb the surrounding moisture and could expand popping glues joints and opening up gaps to allow water in, not a great idea.

What, so you are saying it reverts to softwood
I have a pile of wood sitting out the back which is a pain to drill it is so hard, would you like to compare it against green timber?
Also, glue is not being used here, it looks like it pre-dates nailplates so I'm not sure why you mentioned the effect?
Kiln dried isn't expensive, 10% maybe, and you have a better set of timber to choose from rather rather than pot luck in which way green timber will warp later on. Given that these beams are poorly supported then warping is more of an issue than it is with say wall framing where everything is nailed to everything else.

What makes you assume the original is green timber?

I didn't, I suggested it was possible as I've seen warp similar to that. It could be overloaded, it could be a poor design, it could have gotten wet, it could be weak timber, it could have woodworm, it could be aliens.

No your right it's not a cantilever now, but you said if it were a cantilever, show me a cantilever truss that's supported at either end, what's a cantilever got to do with a truss? do you know what a cantilever is?

I think we are quibbling over minor terms here

This is a pretty conventional design for a span, commonly know as a cantilever or a double fink. To be pedantic, it is two cantilevers meeting in the middle, is that what you wanted?

You don't know the difference between live knots and dead knots, yes knots weaken timber are you saying that is the cause of the sagging?

So you won't retract your previous point then
Big knots are still weak, dead or alive. No, not causing sagging, just I wouldn't have put that timber there, it's sloppy.

Is there any topic you aren't racist in, kwerk? Or is that just an unfortunate trait amongst some poorly educated Americans?

I think he's referring to the curve of the roof, typical Asian temple architecture?
Oh sorry I forgot, EVERYTHING is racist in GD

 

[Iamzod]

The garage roof is older than I am, in fact i believe it's been up over 50 years, One thing that really concerns me is I can't see where the roof is fixed onto the walls along the sides of the garage, and surely if they were then they wouldn't be splayed out at the sides?

I've done a garage roof before with my dad but it took ages to finish it, so one thing I do know is it looks seriously flimsy on the inside compared to the one we put up (pictured below)! If I had the time & my dad was available to help I'd tear it down & do a DIY roof like the one we did a few years ago, just bin/sell the tiles & use the same corrugated stuff we put up at my dads.

 

[bitslice]

That one is great

 

[Maccapacca]

But look at the massive knots near the edge OMG it's falling down as we speak.

What, so you are saying it reverts to softwood

It's softwood, it'll always be softwood just kiln dried which is required in a heated internal area, the kiln drying just well dries it out, it doesn't magically become something else, kiln dried timber will just absorb the moisture in the air and equalise at about 18% so your expensive kiln drying is a waste of money.

I think your confusing green timber which is fresh cut 100% moisture and sawn softwood which is 18%

http://www.geckosteeltruss.net/Blank_2.gif

This is a pretty conventional design for a span, commonly know as a cantilever or a double fink. To be pedantic, it is two cantilevers meeting in the middle, is that what you wanted?[/QUOTE]

No it's not the 'cantilever' is pointing to the overhang where you pin a soffit and fascia, a truss is a truss not a cantilever, it's not really quibbling you can admit you're wrong it doesn't hurt.


[quote="bitslice, post: 23638772"]
Big knots are still weak, dead or alive. No, not causing sagging, just I wouldn't have put that timber there, it's sloppy.[/QUOTE]

But it may have been all that was available at the time without costing the earth, my guess would be that it had slate tiles which are considerably lighter than clay. Many people make the mistake of re roofing old slate roofs with clay or concrete and not considering the structure which was only meant to take thin slate.

We looked at a timber house that was listed and the roof timbers were old ships timbers probably hand sawn one side which is how many were built and still standing today with bowed roofs

 

[kwerk]

Is there any topic you aren't racist in, kwerk? Or is that just an unfortunate trait amongst some poorly educated Americans?

how is that racist? thats how they build their roof trusses, bendy just like OP's garage.

 

[kwerk]

I've done a garage roof before with my dad but it took ages to finish it, so one thing I do know is it looks seriously flimsy on the inside compared to the one we put up (pictured below)!

You expecting an F4 tornado in Worksop? Jesus.

 

[bitslice]

But look at the massive knots near the edge OMG it's falling down as we speak.

Stop being silly, look at the OP pic, a knot goes from one end and comes out the other. For the trusses above the knots are parallel.

so your expensive kiln drying is a waste of money.

And I'm thinking you've never built anything with your hands?
fwiw I often refer to sawn softwood as green because it's about as good as.

No it's not

Point at a roof truss and ask someone about the design, chances are they will say cantilever, most roof trusses look the same. Stick cantilever truss into google and you get that same design. I've got a few books on roof trusses somewhere, I bet they all use the same terminology. If you want to pretend you didn't know what I was talking about that's up to you.

But it may have been all that was available at the time without costing the earth, my guess would be that it had slate tiles which are considerably lighter than clay. Many people make the mistake of re roofing old slate roofs with clay or concrete and not considering the structure which was only meant to take thin slate.

Looks like a post war semi to me, I've never seen slate on one of those.

Looking at the brickwork and the tiles, the house and the garage don't match, therefore this was possibly put up a few years later by the houseowner. I'd assume the tile was original.
To me, apart from the poor design and the very thin chords, it doesn't look far off from being able to support tile

 

[Coolasmoo]

Looks like they used 3x2 instead of 4x2

Just brace it up and it will be fine.

 

[Iamzod]

Thought i'd post an update on this now that a local roofer has been out to look at it, he says he can push/pull the sides of the roof back almost into their correct positions & he was talking about using some sort of cement that they use on repairing church roofs to secure it all in place along with bracing the roof from the inside in a few places.

He reckons that there is a bit of pointing needs doing around the concrete beam above the garage door as the cement has cracked either side due to the walls being pushed apart.

He also spotted this nasty bit of damage I never noticed on the inner walls that seperates the two rooms which he says is caused again by the walls being pushed apart but he can sort out-

He says he's insured & gives a 5 year guarantee on his work and has said he can do it for £220. He also quoted me £2500 for a whole new roof including dropping the height of the apex & getting rid of the chimney with a 10 year guarantee on it.

£220 seems too good to be true if it gives me another 5 years at least (he did say it'd last a lot longer than 10).

 

[wkingsnorth]

The whole roof is going to collapse within 3 weeks unless you get my special building service which costs only £35000, down from £99000 for this week only!

 

[Mark A]

Wow, that is a fair gap that has opened up.

£220 does seem very cheap if that's including materials?

 

[Iamzod]

Wow, that is a fair gap that has opened up.

£220 does seem very cheap if that's including materials?

Yeah, he said it's all included. This is why I posted back more than anything, it sounds too cheap. Was hoping someone with Knowledge would advise if this sounded like a realistic solution.

 

[Narj]

It seems a few peeps in here know their stuf, so if I may be cheeky....

I want to get the roof on my house sorted next year. Quite some years ago it seems they replaced the slate tiles with concrete ones and over time some of the beams have got into a state like the OP's (although nowhere near as bad, you don't see any "sag" apart from on the ridge). I've had a roofer in to look at it and he's said it can be strengthened but won't really go anywhere as it is, but any ideas how much it costs to re-do the roof of your average 3 bed semi/EoT, replacing any dodgy beams/ridge board?

 

[Iamzod]

Ok, so here is what i've had done-

Each rafter is now connected right at the top of the wall by new joists made out of 6x2 and there are now vertical pieces in too about a foot in from the wall. Bearing in mind the wall has already bowed somewhat will this be enough if I also put 3 stainless steel straps down either wall holding the joists in place too.?

 

[Gilly]

That does seem cheap :/

Ask if he can leave the apex where it is and buiold living space into it for the same price

[edit]Sorry didn't realise I'd come late to the party!