Any First Aiders here - would you help somebody in trouble?

I do agree though that there are people who adminster the incorrect first aid, even though they are apparently "trained"

My brother was playing football in primary school, his foot went in to a hole in the field (its where they put the goalpost's in to when they have them on the pitch. He was running at the time so obviously it was nasty.

The first aider instead of leaving him there, decided to try and move him in to the building, after several attempts at struggling to get him in, they "only then" decided it would be a bad idea to move.

Was later found he had broken his leg in two places after x-rays, he spent 4-5 weeks in hospital if I remember correctly.

They should not have moved him at all and just called the ambulance.
 
AmyS said:
I find that so bizarre though to be honest, regarding your colleague.
Being sued would be the last thing on my mind if I saw a person in trouble, it would be in my nature as a human being and then as a nurse to help where I could.
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That was precisely mu point to my colleague. I told her as much if it was me I would offer help and assistance where I felt confident enough. Even if it was phone an ambulance and sit with that person (someone fallen over.) but yes I wouldn't care if spomeone wanted to attempt to sue I would hgelp.

G|mp said:
Why on earth would you ever think that?

Apart from your Nursey thread I don't think I've ever conversed with you? I tend to avoid your great threads tbh.
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Deary me how rude.:D:D
 
davido_labido said:
well, urm, yes. thats what ambulances are for, life threatening injuries, generally a fracture isnt, if its a serious break then again, an ambulance would be required.

if your child just fractured any other bone except spine, neck or skull, id just send him to A&E too, usually with some emergency point of contact, like his parents or family friend. Im not sure why you would expect an ambulance to be called (unless of course it was a head, neck or spinal injury as mentioned)
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You are kidding right? So if you broke your leg or arm you'd get in a car and walk into A&E?
 
davido_labido said:
well, urm, yes. thats what ambulances are for, life threatening injuries, generally a fracture isnt, if its a serious break then again, an ambulance would be required.

if your child just fractured any other bone except spine, neck or skull, id just send him to A&E too, usually with some emergency point of contact, like his parents or family friend. Im not sure why you would expect an ambulance to be called (unless of course it was a head, neck or spinal injury as mentioned)
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I think it would also depend on how much pain / distress the person was in - regardless of the physical appearance of the break - some closed fractures you'd still need gas and air (especially if you live in a remote area).
 
I've been a designated first aider in the work place since I was 18 which was 5 years ago.

Wouldn't have it any other way. Luckily I've only seen a few incidents, though. An elderly colleague got disoriented and fell over on the floor and stayed there until the Ambulance arrived. Another time a ladder fell over and cut open another colleagues head, I was there to help him through that too.

I am not afraid of blood. However I'm not sure of my skills. If someone really did fall over and lose consciousness, and stopped breathing, could I really try and keep air in their lungs until the ambulance arrives to try and save them? It's all fun and games playing with the dummies but, in reality, I can't say with 100% certainty that I'd be able to keep on top of the situation. I'd like to think I'd just go into auto pilot.
 
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As a Police Officer I do a yearly refresher on First Aid. This subject always crops up - the trainer who is qualified to train always says that there has never been a case of anyone being sued in the UK for carrying out first aid.

First aid is promoting a recovery - making sure that the airway is open, placing people in the recovery position, making sure that the heart is circulating blood (via chest compressions if it isn't beating), compression on wounds that are spurting blood, making sure people are comforted and are not running round like a headless chicken.

If you stick to that you will never be sued.

Step outside of those sort of techniques, i.e carrying out surgical techniques such as a Tracheotomy with a pen because you saw it on MacGyver - and it goes wrong - then you will probably end up in a civil court. That said I suspect that if you acted in the best intentions of the individual you might get a sympathetic Judge siding with you.

I always have a duty to assist, since it becomes a criminal offence not to intervene as a Police Officer.

I've carried out CPR numerous times both on and off duty, stopped people choking on pizza at 3am in the morning when they're hammered on alcohol and fallen on the floor and all their mates are gawping at them, rendered assistance with people in RTCs who have bones sticking out of their legs and arms, placed compression on people who have severed arteries and all sorts of things over the last 26 years. No-one has even remotely come close to starting a civil case against me.

When the trauma is over it is quite surprising how people react - I've even had thank you cards off people that have tried to commit suicide with overdoses - put simply most people are quite grateful that they are still alive rather than dead.

My advice stick to the basics and you will be fine.
 
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Monkeh said:
You are kidding right? So if you broke your leg or arm you'd get in a car and walk into A&E?
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With a broken arm in particular, why couldn't you get a lift to the hospital? Ill admit the leg injury might make making your own way trickier, but an arm injury doesn't stop you using your legs...
 
During my first aid training, the question of legal rights was brought up.

As long as you follow the core rules of the first aid manual you are generally safe from prosecution.

As work based first aider's, you cannot administer any medication, so if you do, you're screwed :(

Which is annoying as I was also trained with the British Red Cross, but couldn't use some of my advanced techniques in the workplace... Due to lack of insurance. Weird, but true.

As to the OP, I would and have assisted when needed.
 
Dimple said:
This seems like a stupid question because why be a First Aider in the first place if you're not willing to put it to use?

Me and a work colleague are the First Aiders in our department and we went and did a 3 day First Aid course to get our certificates up to date. Anyway, two weeks ago somebody was choking but came out of it on their own and somebody said that they would be alright because me and the other First Aider were on hand. The other First Aider then announced that they wouldn't do a thing except for ringing 999 or 2222 where we are. I was gobsmacked at this and verified that the First Aider wouldn't step in at any time if another colleague got into problems just in case they got sued (apparently no First Aider has ever been sued). I then asked why they had wasted company money to be trained in something they won't carry out and they just shrugged their shoulders. This has been on my mind for two weeks.

So back to my original question:
Are you a First Aider who wouldn't help anybody?
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a lot of people are under the misconception that they can get sued.. this law stops that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

Take this for example. I perform CPR on someone.. I'm most likely to break their ribs. They survive and try to sue me.. the above protects me from that. (On top of NHS PLI lol)
 
I'm first aid trained, and I'm covered under the company insurance, and was told when I did my training that provided I did all the procedures correctly I would be covered by the St. Johns Ambulance insurance for when I was outside of work.
 
West said:
a lot of people are under the misconception that they can get sued.. this law stops that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

Take this for example. I perform CPR on someone.. I'm most likely to break their ribs. They survive and try to sue me.. the above protects me from that. (On top of NHS PLI lol)
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except that there are no good samaritan laws in the uk (yet)
what we use as defence is the MCA 2005 and acting in best interests
for adults anyway. children are are a totally different matter
 
Monkeh said:
You are kidding right? So if you broke your leg or arm you'd get in a car and walk into A&E?
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i played rugby for 11 years.

quite often i made my own way to A&E after breaks and dislocations.

this has included, popping my knee out, couldnt bend my leg at all, kneecap around the side of my leg.
broke my wrist, elbow and shoulder at the same time....
broke ribs <--- mst pointless time going to the hospital ever btw.
fractured collar bone
and loads of minor breaks.

obviously i didnt drive myself, but ive got lifts, taxi's and even the bus, theres no reason for an ambulance unless its a really serious break. so yes, i am serious to answer your question :P

the only time i went into an ambulance was when i got knocked out and was out cold for around 10 minutes. woke up as they were loading me up, spent a night in hospital =(

Have you broken anything?
 
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Dimple said:
So back to square one.
This person accepted the role of First Aider in the department of around 33 people and told their work colleague all they would do is ring for professionals.
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You wouldn't believe how often I come across this at large companies. This country is so afraid of getting sued it's unreal. Compensation culture at it's best!

Most people only do it because it looks good on a CV..
 
Yes, definitely, but I'm not first aid trained at all so only would if nobody else was. I know basic common sensical stuff but that's about it.

I was almost first on the scene to a British cyclist who hit a car in Majorca and I started to help until about 30 seconds and a retired GP turned up. In that case I would have just asked him some basic questions, name, where any pain was, if he was with anyone etc, and got him a coke for the shock! Like I said I've never done a course but have picked up bits and pieces from everyday stuff. Also my OH is a midwife so again she feels she has a duty to help if needed where she can.
 
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So this is what I keep debating about in my head since it happened...

I have been to get my first aid certificate twice. It's a bit of a fun for a whole days training and normally whoever I am working for gives me a days pay for it so why not.

About 6 months ago I used to work as a night receptionist at a big brand hotel chain and I am also studying at university. One night I noticed someone taking out and bringing in a oxygen tank. This was a little odd to me as on staff change over we are notified if we have any disabled in for Fire reasons and nothing was said or written down. About a hour after I saw this I had a woman come to reception and ask if I could ring 999 as her husband was having trouble breathing. So I did so and tried to give as much detail as I could to the operator but I had no information so I gave the phone to the woman. The phone was then passed back to me and the operator informed me that a ambulance was on its way.

I then walk down the corridor to the room they are in and can hear crying. I open the door slightly to find the women crying over a body on the floor and two say 19 year old guys in there. I can't open the door any more as a wheel chair is blocking it. I ask if he's breathing and they do not know. I ask if he is concious and they do not know. It's clear that the woman thinks he is dead and the 2 guys are in shock. I tell them to open the door and get to the gentleman on the floor. His lips are blue/black and he looks...well dead. I can't hear any breathing. I check for a pulse on his wrist and on his neck and I can feel nothing. So now I know that CPR needs to be performed however I also know that the front door is locked and I really need to phone 999 again as his condition has changed from trouble breathing to no longer breathing. So what is currently running through my mind is "do I perform CRP on what I believe is a dead gentleman for however long it takes for a ambulance to get in the building or..." I guess I knew that I was about to freeze up. So I decided to ask one of the younger guys if they knew CPR. They did so I told him to start. I watched him for about 15/30 seconds to make sure he would do it and then just ran to the entrance and got back on the phone.

Anyway paramedics arrived and to not write even more text. The woman came back at about 4am to say that he didn't make it.

It was my worst night shift ever. I should point out I was the only staff member on duty as it always is. It put me off night shifts for good and I quit about 2 months after it.

I think part of me didn't perform CPR on the guy because of how dead he looked. Which is bad I know. I don't think in the slightest that his death could have been prevented if I had acted quicker or anything. I think maybe I'm just a little bit disappointed that what was going through my head was "I don't feel comfortable performing CPR on him". I could have always told someone else to go unlock the door and use the reception phone but I didn't.

Knowing First Aid is one thing. Having the balls to take action is another really.
 
That is a different situation, if his heart has stopped, as it clearly had, the only thing going to 'save' him is a defibrillator, assuming he's even capable of being saved, depends on heart rhythm.
You going ohoning to tell change in condition does one more thing, it means they dispatch a cardaic car or ambulance in addition to the initial ambulance. This might save his life.
The best cpr can possibly do, is pospone death, or prolong life until arrival of a defibrillator.

You did the right thing for your situation, as you were alone, as in the only competent person there, the others useless with shock or distress. When alone, you get help.
Job done, don't debate it again, heart massage wouldn't have brought him round, wouldn't have saved him at all.
 
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