Any investment bankers here?

Ohnoezfail

Ohnoezfail

Ohnoezfail

Associate
Joined
30 Nov 2008
Posts
253
Just wondering about what it's like to be an investment banker, from analyst to associate, and what advice you would give to someone who is interested in the career? How would one get their foot in the door? Most important qualities or what exactly I should be nailing on my applications to internships etc.

Any insight into the roles and typical days would also be helpful. I'd like first hand accounts, ideally!

I'm a Mathematics & Physics joint honours student from a semi-target uni, if that's relevant.
 
I haven't read it yet, but:

Cityboy: Beer and Loathing in the Square Mile (Kindle Edition) by Geraint Anderson

will give you a perspective from someone who ended up disillusioned with it. This is not necessarily my own view.

Keiser Report on Russia Today will also give you an "alternative" perspective on the workings of the City, again not necessarily my own view.

Rgds

Ohnoezfail said:
I'm a Mathematics & Physics joint honours student from a semi-target uni, if that's relevant.
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If you're good at maths, then derivatives trader.

Developing algorithms for automated trading.

Analyst - researching companies to provide info for the sales teams.

Rgds

Brian Rose from London Real TV was an ex investment banker. I think he did a YouTube video where he got someone else to interview him.

He also does a Silicon Real YouTube channel, which is about the tech startup scene in London. That's quite an interesting area IMO.

Rgds
 
Have a read through these two:

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You really need a really good summer internship or similar if you are only at a semi-target university. This is even when applying for penultimate year internships.

Try and get to know some of the HR employees or department representatives at the events the banks will organise. Of course lots of other people will have the same idea.

You will be competing against an army of graduates from the Top 5 universities in the UK and others in Europe. It will be difficult to stand out. There is also an element of snobbishness when it comes to universities but at least nepotism has been reduced. Good luck. If you are able to, use any positive discrimination schemes to your advantage. Good luck.
 
I'm not an investment banker, used to live with a couple and I wouldn't want their lifestyle - previously worked at a proprietary trading firm and my hours were much nicer than theirs. Now I create trading software for banks etc..

Do you actually want to be an investment banker though? Very long hours, lots of power point presentations, pitches to clients etc.. lots of travel, not necessarily going to make too much use of your Maths/Physics degree.

If I were you I'd try and land an internship in sales and trading in a bank, forget about the 'investment banking' stuff - maths/physics would be much more useful in trading, risk, quant roles (though these will require post grad quals too) etc..
 
muon said:
You really need a really good summer internship or similar if you are only at a semi-target university. This is even when applying for penultimate year internships.

Try and get to know some of the HR employees or department representatives at the events the banks will organise. Of course lots of other people will have the same idea.

You will be competing against an army of graduates from the Top 5 universities in the UK and others in Europe. It will be difficult to stand out. There is also an element of snobbishness when it comes to universities but at least nepotism has been reduced. Good luck. If you are able to, use any positive discrimination schemes to your advantage. Good luck.
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This. If you do pick an internship be prepared to work 12 hour plus days if working on deals. The work is varied (as much as finance can be) and there is always a chance that the competition will win the mandate and all that work is for nothing. One thing many don't understand is those golden jobs are few and far between, and the number of ops and support staff is about 10 fold greater and it's not very intersting (not an ops person btw).

Sell side & deal making apart there are equally rewarding (financially and intellectually) in areas such as "Standard" Asset Management, Hedge Funds and Insurance. It's a long learning cycle, but Actuaries seem to do quite well.
 
Actuaries will get less than front office types in banks, but can easily make as much as the rest in middle office etc.. and will AFAIK tend to have less hours(once qualified), less stress more stability in their career. Tis certainly something worth considering as a maths grad. Some of them do move across to banks too.

Accountants do too - banks like them for middle office product control roles, I guess it likely is possible for accountants to move across to investment banking too.

Could be worth getting either professional qual if you miss the boat with internships/grad programs at a bank... could still provide you with the opportunity to move across to a bank later.

I do wonder if the OP means actual investment banking or if he is using it as a sort of catch all term for various finance roles?
 
muon said:
Why does someone become an accountant?
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Because they didn't get on a grad program at a bank?


Being serious though I'd assume the other poster is asking about the OP's personal reasons rather than questioning in general why people would want to become one. I'd hope it would be more than just 'because it pays well' too - I'd also wonder if he actually wants to specifically be an 'investment banker' per say or if he is just looking at various roles within banks/investment banks.
 
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radderfire said:
I haven't read it yet, but:

Cityboy: Beer and Loathing in the Square Mile (Kindle Edition) by Geraint Anderson

will give you a perspective from someone who ended up disillusioned with it. This is not necessarily my own view.

Keiser Report on Russia Today will also give you an "alternative" perspective on the workings of the City, again not necessarily my own view.

Rgds
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I wouldn't technically call Geraint an investment banker, he was a utilities analyst who advised various clients and brokers on stock options. However his book is a decent read, well if you don't mind the laddish pun riddled content.
 
Thanks for the all the suggestions guys!

I do mean Investment Banking as in the whole area and the various roles, but i know that one often starts from analyst and moves their way up.

It's just something that I'm looking into and it does look tough, but also incredibly reward as I'm sure you all know.

I know a few bankers and accountants so I'll try to gain a placement through these contacts this summer. There's also a small local community bank not far from my uni, I'll be having a word about shadowing there too.

I do realise that I am on the low end of the scale when it comes to internship applicants. Particularly as I'm not actually studying something closely related and that the only knowledge I have is from reading article, rather than real world experience or anything from my course.

As for my plans, my course includes a Master's at the end, which I will most likely be doing. I highly doubt I'll drop down to a Bsc, and even if I do, I'll be doing a Msc elsewhere in applied mathematics or mathematical physics etc.

As for the comments about actuaries, AFAIK most actuaries have a PhD of some sort? I doubt I will be going that far in my studies.
 
Ohnoezfail said:
Thanks for the all the suggestions guys!

I do mean Investment Banking as in the whole area and the various roles, but i know that one often starts from analyst and moves their way up.

It's just something that I'm looking into and it does look tough, but also incredibly reward as I'm sure you all know.

I know a few bankers and accountants so I'll try to gain a placement through these contacts this summer. There's also a small local community bank not far from my uni, I'll be having a word about shadowing there too.

I do realise that I am on the low end of the scale when it comes to internship applicants. Particularly as I'm not actually studying something closely related and that the only knowledge I have is from reading article, rather than real world experience or anything from my course.

As for my plans, my course includes a Master's at the end, which I will most likely be doing. I highly doubt I'll drop down to a Bsc, and even if I do, I'll be doing a Msc elsewhere in applied mathematics or mathematical physics etc.

As for the comments about actuaries, AFAIK most actuaries have a PhD of some sort? I doubt I will be going that far in my studies.
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All the more reason to read Cityboy then!
 
I am, I went in the "back route" by working hard as a graduate consultant building up relationships at clients.

Other way as people say is internships/grad schemes really (referrals always help)
 
Ohnoezfail said:
I do mean Investment Banking as in the whole area and the various roles, but i know that one often starts from analyst and moves their way up.
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OK did wonder if that was the case, maths/physics would be put to better use in other roles than investment banking. Analyst is just the grade/rank you start at... the hierarchy is usually some variation of analyst -> associate -> vice president -> executive director -> managing director. Some banks have other grades in between like AVP and SVP either side of VP...

As for my plans, my course includes a Master's at the end, which I will most likely be doing. I highly doubt I'll drop down to a Bsc, and even if I do, I'll be doing a Msc elsewhere in applied mathematics or mathematical physics etc.

As for the comments about actuaries, AFAIK most actuaries have a PhD of some sort? I doubt I will be going that far in my studies.
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If you can then it might be worth going for a post grad masters at a uni with a better reputation than the one you're at currently (though obvs reputation can be subjective) - if you can get into the likes of Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial, Warwick, UCL etc... then you'll get through more HR filters.

Actuaries don't tend to have PhDs, AFAIK you don't actually need a degree though in reality most will have BSc/MSc... they do have fairly tough exams.

If you want to be a quant at a bank then a PhD seems to be asked for more often than not these days, though the work often doesn't actually require it.

If you want to be a trader then there are opportunities for this outside of banks too - funds, options market makers/proprietary trading firms, utility firms, oil companies, commodities houses etc... It isn't unheard of to say work in trading at some oil company/power company/utility firm and then move across to an energy desk at a bank or fund. Best paid guy at Citi back in 2009, the one with the $100 million bonus that got Obama's pay Czar & some US politicians angry started out as a trader at BP rather than at a bank.
 
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londonbairn said:
I am, I went in the "back route" by working hard as a graduate consultant building up relationships at clients.

Other way as people say is internships/grad schemes really (referrals always help)
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How would you compare the two jobs? What is your daily schedule like?

dowie said:
OK did wonder if that was the case, maths/physics would be put to better use in other roles than investment banking. Analyst is just the grade/rank you start at... the hierarchy is usually some variation of analyst -> associate -> vice president -> executive director -> managing director. Some banks have other grades in between like AVP and SVP either side of VP...



If you can then it might be worth going for a post grad masters at a uni with a better reputation than the one you're at currently (though obvs reputation can be subjective) - if you can get into the likes of Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial, Warwick, UCL etc... then you'll get through more HR filters.

Actuaries don't tend to have PhDs, AFAIK you don't actually need a degree though in reality most will have BSc/MSc... they do have fairly tough exams.

If you want to be a quant at a bank then a PhD seems to be asked for more often than not these days, though the work often doesn't actually require it.

If you want to be a trader then there are opportunities for this outside of banks too - funds, options market makers/proprietary trading firms, utility firms, oil companies, commodities houses etc... It isn't unheard of to say work in trading at some oil company/power company/utility firm and then move across to an energy desk at a bank or fund. Best paid guy at Citi back in 2009, the one with the $100 million bonus that got Obama's pay Czar & some US politicians angry started out as a trader at BP rather than at a bank.
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That would actually be my only reason to not continue with an Msc here, is that I could go onto Oxbridge or Imperial which have very nice courses on the areas of my degree.

Yeah becoming an actuary has quite a few exams to sit.. which apparently takes years!

Doubtful I'd get into becoming a quant then.

That sounds very lucrative.. I'll have to research a bit more on trading, thank you :)
 
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