Any legal heads here?

Merlin5

Merlin5

Merlin5

Soldato
Joined
17 Aug 2009
Posts
18,378
Location
Finchley, London
Need some advice. I recently did my Will, ended up going with Co-op legal as it was one of the recommended places on the money saving expert site, and the Will was only £99. That's all done and dusted now.

I've also bought lasting power of attorney which was considerably more expensive. I got a couple of family members to sign as attorneys and one close friend of the family to be witness to them. But Co-op just sent three of the pages back to me saying that they have signing errors and that they would be rejected by the office of the public guardian. Bit of a pita. To be honest they're not really errors in my eyes, neverthless they say they need the witness and attorneys to put their initials next to the errors and then for me to return the pages in their prepaid envelope. It's a bit of hassle getting family members together again and I asked Co-op if it's ok if I initial them or get permission from the attorneys and witness for me to initial them, but they just say they can't legally advise on that. They said it could be a problem down the line and potentially invalidate the LPA.

I don't really want to hassle my family again but might need to. I'm wondering if any legal minds here think it's ok for me to initial them or if it's likely to invalidate the document? How would the office of public guardian know who initialled them? My family would be happy to just say they initialled the pages if asked, right?
 
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1)A person is in breach of this section if he— (a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and. (b)intends, by making the representation— (i)to make a gain for himself or another, or. (ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

Fraud Act 2006

An Act to make provision for, and in connection with, criminal liability for fraud and obtaining services dishonestly.
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

Oxford dictionary :
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
"he was convicted of fraud"

@Diddums
 
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You can do power of attorneys yourself... You have to register it though... It's about £80

Just follow the instructions, print, sign and then register it. Not worth paying someone to do it... It's really straight forward.

www.gov.uk

Make, register or end a lasting power of attorney

How to make a lasting power of attorney (LPA): starting an application online, choosing an attorney, certifying a copy, changing an LPA.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
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EvilRob said:
No. There has to be a gain or a loss for it to be fraud.
Click to expand...

Initialling pretending to be someone else is committing fraud in the sense of the wider definition of committing a deceit, although I can see that you meant it in a strict legal sense. Regardless, I think we can agree that it would be deceitful and should not be done.
 
radderfire said:
Initialling pretending to be someone else is committing fraud in the sense of the wider definition of committing a deceit, although I can see that you meant it in a strict legal sense. Regardless, I think we can agree that it would be deceitful and should not be done.
Click to expand...
The phrase 'committing fraud' when discussing a legal document certainly implied the legal definition to me.
I agree he shouldn't do it, but not seeing any deceit at all if his friend would be OK with it. I think he shouldn't do it because it might invalidate his LPR and then his wishes would not be fulfilled.
 
If any of them decides things aren't going in their interests they could invalidate it all if you put the opportunity on the table.

If you're doing this for security and peace of mind then stick to that goal.
 
mattyfez said:
You can do power of attorneys yourself... You have to register it though... It's about £80

Just follow the instructions, print, sign and then register it. Not worth paying someone to do it... It's really straight forward.

www.gov.uk

Make, register or end a lasting power of attorney

How to make a lasting power of attorney (LPA): starting an application online, choosing an attorney, certifying a copy, changing an LPA.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
Click to expand...
This.

My sister and I did this last year for our mother and it was very simple.
 
Merlin5 said:
Need some advice. I recently did my Will, ended up going with Co-op legal as it was one of the recommended places on the money saving expert site, and the Will was only £99. That's all done and dusted now.

I've also bought lasting power of attorney which was considerably more expensive. I got a couple of family members to sign as attorneys and one close friend of the family to be witness to them. But Co-op just sent three of the pages back to me saying that they have signing errors and that they would be rejected by the office of the public guardian. Bit of a pita. To be honest they're not really errors in my eyes, neverthless they say they need the witness and attorneys to put their initials next to the errors and then for me to return the pages in their prepaid envelope. It's a bit of hassle getting family members together again and I asked Co-op if it's ok if I initial them or get permission from the attorneys and witness for me to initial them, but they just say they can't legally advise on that. They said it could be a problem down the line and potentially invalidate the LPA.

I don't really want to hassle my family again but might need to. I'm wondering if any legal minds here think it's ok for me to initial them or if it's likely to invalidate the document? How would the office of public guardian know who initialled them? My family would be happy to just say they initialled the pages if asked, right?
Click to expand...

With this sort of stuff I would strongly advise you to do everything by the book. Saving some time in the short term is not worth potentially leaving things open to legal challenge at a later date.
 
Merlin5 said:
if I initial them or get permission from the attorneys and witness for me to initial them, but they just say they can't legally advise on that. They said it could be a problem down the line and potentially invalidate the LPA.
Click to expand...
Well exactly, if they refute they signed it its going to lead to more legal complications and basically what it all boils down to is money i.e. it'll go to the solicitors to sort out and thats a chunk out of the inheritence. Basically it has to be clear cut and above board and this stuff gets messy if it isn't. Mother had to act as executor on a will for a friend who passed away and his former wife's family wasn't covered by the will (passed away before him) but did put money into the house/business and her family they basically chimed in and said wheres our share? Anyway it inevitably went to the solicitors to sort out and that cost a bit they were basically offered a chunk of cash to avoid further legal action and settle the case, which they did. But it would have been better if it had been thought about beforehand.
 
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