Any Nikon Experts here?

morgan

morgan

morgan

Associate
Joined
12 Jul 2004
Posts
1,588
I am a Canon man, but I have just looked at a review of a D200 and it looked like a nice piece of kit.

When I say I am a Canon man I mean I have been using Canons for the last few years and I recently invested quite a bit into thier gear for my business.

I have absolutely no knowledge of Nikons products - lenses etc so can somebody please clear this up for me...basically I've heard/seen that Nikon gear is generally more expensive than the equivilent canon setup so can anybody give me the nikon eqiv models to my canon lenses so I can look up prices etc:

EF 70-200 F2.8 L IS (image stabalizer - does nikon have such a thing?)
EF 24-70 F2.8 L
EFS 10-22 mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
EF 85 F1.8 prime

reading something that MrK mentioned about the quality of Nikon glass I think its wise to investigate the d200 before I jump for the 30D.
I've also read a snippet that the d200 is great for flash photography compared to the canon system..does anyone know any more about this?

thanks
 
I've been using nikon glass on the d70 for the past few weeks and I have to say the quality has been better than any Canon mount glass I have used to date, I guess what the guys who made Corpse Bride said was indeed true, they used 1d mkII bodies with Nikkor lenses using nEOS adapters since nikon glass is far better but Canon bodies offer the superior image quality they needed.

As for the d200, there isn't another camera out there that can better it for price and spec - the only one is the 5D but that's several hundred £ more and way out of reach of it's target market which is people like you and me (I would love a 5D but at the price it is it would mean having to spend less on decent lenses.

As it is all my mates use Nikon and I have access to a lot of Nikon lenses too which made me choose the d200 as my upgrade - I lose out to noise at iso800 and above compared to the 5D but it's not a major issue.

Another thing I like is the older Nikon lenses which can be bought for double figure monies from 2nd hand shops etc, I've been using the 55mm prime 1.8 manual too and it's very sharp and very high quality and the good thing is you don't need any adapter rings for them to fit on dSLR bodies.

Nikon also has some new flash gear out for the d200 as you mentioned, reading the letsgodigital preview of it all will show you the new systems and how they work.

I'm going to go into a local camera shop and have a play on the d200 later today so will hopefully be back with a positive update too :)

Nikkor has IS on their lenses but only on VR models (vibration reduction) which gives you a 4stop advantage (I believe canons is 3stops but im only recalling from memory!)

USM equivelant is the AF-S lenses iirc which use the silent wave motor which is basically what Canons is for USM.

Nikon doesn't have "L" equivelant naming to their lenses, instead they have the DX lenses and of course the ED glass lenses, you should be able to tell what's what by looking at the stamp on the face of it like so. There are many more acronyms and namings to their lenses but I am still learning them all, LOL

http://www.fixit-4u.net/mrk/root/photos/camera/80-200nik/nik_80-200.jpg
(that's an older lens but still pretty awesome)

I still like Canon and would instantly jump on a 5D but only if it were £1000 cheaper and the 30D doesn't seem to offer much over the 20D bar a few changes and nothing over the d200 so it's basically the same as what Nikon did to the d70s but minus the firmware update for little brother :/

I too am still learning the new system as I go so can only put forward so much but as I get to grips with it more and understand it more I will of course be able to compare more with the Canon stuff I have been used to so much!

One thing to note about though is AF pickup speed, it's probably the d70 and d50 only but AF pickup is slower on these cameras compared to Canons AF speed, I expect this is a tota non issue on the d200 since it takes the exact same system directly from the d2x which is much faster than what I have used before. Perhaps the lower end bodies only suffer the slower AF "issue" as none of the reviews mentioned such problems for the d200.


edit*

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showcat.php?cat=28 for lens reviews, the scores are all pretty high =)
 
Last edited:
cheers MrK..nice info there. Like I say Nikon is very foreign to me.

Looking at the 20D/30D and the d200 on paper I'm struggling to see where the d200 beats the canons. From the reviews I have seen (dpreview etc) its clear to note that the Canon is far superior at ISO 400/800 and above (I use ISO1600 a lot on my 20D) and image sharpness is much better on the canon (using equiv lenses). The nikon picked up when sharpening was applied but thats not a true comparison.

I'm sure the build is better on the nikon (I tired the d70 once and I did like it) but I just love the Canon system. Its accessable and they just seem to have such a control of the market which is great for prices, support etc. I can use my 20d with my eyes closed and everything seems to be logical.

Am I missing something?
 
You either buy Canon or you buy Nikon, both have comparible systems and lenses but i dont think you can say one is better than the other they are just different.
If youve already got Canon gear i cant see any reason to swap to Nikon, again if you had Nikon gear i cant see any reason why you would swap to Nikon.
The 20D/30D is on par with the D200 the one big thing for me that the D200 has over the Canon gear for the same price is the weather proofing, but then again no one can deny that the Canon cameras are better at higer ISO rates.
I think a lot of people have thought about changing since Canon anounced the 30D, they just expected Canon to at least match the D200 for pixels and i think some feel let down by Canon but there isnt realy that much difference between 8.2MP and 10.2MP its 3504 x 2336 vs 3872 x 2592 and in the real world that isnt a lot, the MP war is over and companies are starting to look at the quality of the image and to my mind Canon are still winning that one over Nikon ....just.

Andy
 
EF 70-200 F2.8 L IS - AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 G VR
(Bread and butter telephoto zoom of most pros)

EF 24-70 F2.8 L - AF-S Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8 or AF-S Nikkor 17-55mm DX f/2.8 SWM
(24-70 is compatible with film but might not be wide enough on a DX body. 17-55 is great in just about every way, except price tag and weight/size)

EFS 10-22 mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - AF-S Nikkor 12-24mm f/4
(The Nikkor is considered pretty good, but people seem to sometimes prefer 3rd party brand ones such as the Sigma 10-20 HSM)

EF 85 F1.8 prime - AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8 (The 1.4 version is considered something of a legend, similar to the Canon f/1.2)
 
Attu said:
You either buy Canon or you buy Nikon, both have comparible systems and lenses but i dont think you can say one is better than the other they are just different.
If youve already got Canon gear i cant see any reason to swap to Nikon, again if you had Nikon gear i cant see any reason why you would swap to Nikon.
The 20D/30D is on par with the D200 the one big thing for me that the D200 has over the Canon gear for the same price is the weather proofing, but then again no one can deny that the Canon cameras are better at higer ISO rates.
I think a lot of people have thought about changing since Canon anounced the 30D, they just expected Canon to at least match the D200 for pixels and i think some feel let down by Canon but there isnt realy that much difference between 8.2MP and 10.2MP its 3504 x 2336 vs 3872 x 2592 and in the real world that isnt a lot, the MP war is over and companies are starting to look at the quality of the image and to my mind Canon are still winning that one over Nikon ....just.

Andy
Click to expand...
Be realistic - the only thing the 20D has over the D200 is high ISO performance (and a lower price tag, but mainly due to it being older). I'm sure even Canon shooters agree.
 
jhmaeng said:
Be realistic - the only thing the 20D has over the D200 is high ISO performance (and a lower price tag, but mainly due to it being older). I'm sure even Canon shooters agree.
Click to expand...


ok but what has the d200 got over the 20d/30d? I just cant see what all of the fuss is about after looking into it...
 
Just off the top of my head (Disclaimer: I haven't used one in person)

1. Pro-quality body with excellent ergonomics - providing you have reasonable sized hands, I'm confident you will fall in love with the D200 as soon as you hold it (extrapolating from my D70) Also, more controls are brought out into individual buttons or wheels (or press+turn), rather than having to go manu levels into a menu.
2. Fast focus module that works well during the dark (cross-type sensor works to f/5.6, not just f/2.8 in the case of 20D)
3. Viewfinder miles better (The D200 viewfinder is reputed to be on par with the D2X and the 5D)
4. 5fps vs. 3fps
5. Meters with non-CPU lenses (such as old manual focus lenses or the new Carl Zeiss primes)
6. Much more intuitive menu system with intelligent features such as "Last Used Settings" which brings up recently changed settings - it's a small thing, but shows the degree of consideration
7. In-built iTTL control which allows you to control external flash units independently, without a unit sitting on top of the camera itself

etc. Image quality comparisons can be found easily online, and a lot of them seem to say a slight resolution advantage and a film-like grain noise on high-ISO pictures.
 
jhmaeng said:
Just off the top of my head (Disclaimer: I haven't used one in person)

1. Pro-quality body with excellent ergonomics - providing you have reasonable sized hands, I'm confident you will fall in love with the D200 as soon as you hold it (extrapolating from my D70) Also, more controls are brought out into individual buttons or wheels (or press+turn), rather than having to go manu levels into a menu.
2. Fast focus module that works well during the dark (cross-type sensor works to f/5.6, not just f/2.8 in the case of 20D)
3. Viewfinder miles better (The D200 viewfinder is reputed to be on par with the D2X and the 5D)
4. 5fps vs. 3fps
5. Meters with non-CPU lenses (such as old manual focus lenses or the new Carl Zeiss primes)
6. Much more intuitive menu system with intelligent features such as "Last Used Settings" which brings up recently changed settings - it's a small thing, but shows the degree of consideration
7. In-built iTTL control which allows you to control external flash units independently, without a unit sitting on top of the camera itself

etc. Image quality comparisons can be found easily online, and a lot of them seem to say a slight resolution advantage and a film-like grain noise on high-ISO pictures.
Click to expand...

I'm not pro anyone here so dont get me wrong but in defence of the canon 20d/30d:

1. canon also has mag alloy body

2. surely in low light conditions you would be close to wide open anyway? if not i'd be using the af-assist beam on my 580ex

3. having never held the d200 i cant say how it looks but on paper it is identical to the 20d/30d

4. 30d has 5fps

5. i only use compatable lenses..

6. menus sound handy but not really a key factor in taking good shots.

7. ittl sounds cool but I use my 580ex and 420ex as wireless master & slave and its easy to turn one unit off via the flash control. I cant imagine a scenario where you wouldnt want any flash (even a small amount) coming from close to the camera body.

I think the key factor is image quality and usablility. From what I have seen I am yet to see a scenario where the d200 can outperform the 20d/30d for low image noise and the canon is sharper across the board (without using any jpeg sharpness compensation)

I do like the idea of not having white lenses though which stand out like a sore thumb though, and I do like the feel and motion of the nikon shutter system.
 
Yup the d200 has a far larger buffer and makes extensive use of fast cards

d200
• 37 JPEG frames
• 22 RAW frames

20d
• 25 JPEG frames
• 6 RAW frames

It also has more custom white balance banks as well as everything needed to compose a shot on the housing itself without having to go through a secondary button or menu screen.

It also has GPS and wireless ports. The USB transfer speed is also 5MB/sec compared to 20d at 3MB/sec

Thing I like about the battery though is it displays much more information like number of shots since last charge and a % charge left so its easier to track batteries that are losing their power or a faulty battery which can happen.

I think the key factor is image quality and usablility. From what I have seen I am yet to see a scenario where the d200 can outperform the 20d/30d for low image noise and the canon is sharper across the board (without using any jpeg sharpness compensation)
Click to expand...

Thing you must understand here is the more pro you go in DSLR body terms the softer the image comes out straight from the camera, the 20D uses image sharpening just *** same as the 30D and the lower models whilst the d200 uses less sharpening to keep image quality consistant of the d2x and Canon do the same with their 1d series cameras. Profssionals using pro bodies will allways be processing their images in RAW editing and they allways prefer to add sharpening at the final stage to retain the most quality possible. This is why some shots appear to be softer than normal usually.
 
Last edited:
jhmaeng said:
Just off the top of my head (Disclaimer: I haven't used one in person)

1. Pro-quality body with excellent ergonomics - providing you have reasonable sized hands, I'm confident you will fall in love with the D200 as soon as you hold it (extrapolating from my D70) Also, more controls are brought out into individual buttons or wheels (or press+turn), rather than having to go manu levels into a menu.
2. Fast focus module that works well during the dark (cross-type sensor works to f/5.6, not just f/2.8 in the case of 20D)
3. Viewfinder miles better (The D200 viewfinder is reputed to be on par with the D2X and the 5D)
4. 5fps vs. 3fps
5. Meters with non-CPU lenses (such as old manual focus lenses or the new Carl Zeiss primes)
6. Much more intuitive menu system with intelligent features such as "Last Used Settings" which brings up recently changed settings - it's a small thing, but shows the degree of consideration
7. In-built iTTL control which allows you to control external flash units independently, without a unit sitting on top of the camera itself

etc. Image quality comparisons can be found easily online, and a lot of them seem to say a slight resolution advantage and a film-like grain noise on high-ISO pictures.
Click to expand...


Hmm:
1. Subjective, and if you haven't used one how can you say? And more buttons is more things to remember.
2. dunno
3. if it's similar to the 5D then it's definitely better than the 20D
4. 20D and 30D are 5 fps. I've never filled the buffer using fast cards in RAW or more usually Large JPEG
5. I'd suspect most people buying the D200 will be buying AF lenses so I'm not sure how much of a benefit this is. Having said that I wish you could use old canon FD lenses on EOS bodies without adaptors.
6 Again, it's a bit subjective isn't it? I find I rarely have to use the menu on my 20D, everything's set up how I want it.
7. Great feature but in real life again how often does the amateur actually need it? Perhaps if they're regularly working in a studio environment but other than that it's not that often.

Don't get me wrong, I think the D200 looks like a great package and is quite possibly a better camera than the 20/30D, but it's things like the weatherproofing and metering system which do it for me rather than the sort of things mentioned above. I really wish my 20D was weatherprooof. It's the one thing which will most likely result in me upgrading.
 
I think overall its hard to see any real life differences. sure the d200 has a few features but the canons lead the way on image quality - which I think is the main factor everyone is after.
Most amount of simultainious shots i've ever needed is 5 (confetti shot) and the 30d now takes 11 raw shots in a row, I use a card reader on my laptop (dont think i've ever plugged my 20d up to my pc! and the 30d has an improved battery display.

why would i need gps on my camera? sorry I cant see the point!
 
mrk said:
Thing you must understand here is the more pro you go in DSLR body terms the softer the image comes out straight from the camera, the 20D uses image sharpening just *** same as the 30D and the lower models whilst the d200 uses less sharpening to keep image quality consistant of the d2x and Canon do the same with their 1d series cameras. Profssionals using pro bodies will allways be processing their images in RAW editing and they allways prefer to add sharpening at the final stage to retain the most quality possible. This is why some shots appear to be softer than normal usually.
Click to expand...

I always shoot in raw and that is what I am comparing. Like for like in raw shots on the 20d/30d is sharper and has less noise than the d200 and d2x. surely this is the main deciding factor?
 
The thing is, paper doesn't do these camreas justice...
It was a toss up between the 350D and the D70 when I was thinking about getting a dSLR. On paper the 350D seemed the better deal. I went into that high street photography shop feigning interest in buying one or the other, and immediately realised that whilst I couldn't stand the ergonmics / build quality of the 350D, the D70 felt instantly wonderful.
 
A very well layed out response from mrk so I will add my 2p.

Im a Nkkonian love the build quality and layout of my D70. At the weekend I had a play with both a 20D & 350D and even the 20D does not have the same quality feel as my D70.

However if I was being objective and not just defending the Nikon system as i have splashed out lots of cash on it then I would probably tell you that there seems to be a lot more choice with the Canon system. Lenses especially as there seems to be far more choice for Canon users. Just take a peek at the reviews on Fredmiranda and you will see many more pages compared to the Nikons.

Of course im aware that quality is better than quantity and I think Canon have that licked with their L range. The prices for L glass seem high but when Nikon want £900~ for their awesome 17-55 2.8 which doesnt have any form of IS/VR then I think that L glass is reasonable. L glass is also "weather" proof which the expensive Nikon lenses do not seem to mention.

Still even after all that I would still look at a D200 as an upgrade as changing to a different system is costly and as they say the grass isnt always greener on the other side!
 
hoodmeister said:
The thing is, paper doesn't do these camreas justice...
It was a toss up between the 350D and the D70 when I was thinking about getting a dSLR. On paper the 350D seemed the better deal. I went into that high street photography shop feigning interest in buying one or the other, and immediately realised that whilst I couldn't stand the ergonmics / build quality of the 350D, the D70 felt instantly wonderful.
Click to expand...
Exactly how I ended up with my D70.
==========
Regarding image quality comparisons, how could you really say in such a blanket manner "canon leads the way on image quality"?

dpreview comparison between D200, 20D and 5D
 
morgan said:
I think overall its hard to see any real life differences. sure the d200 has a few features but the canons lead the way on image quality - which I think is the main factor everyone is after.
Most amount of simultainious shots i've ever needed is 5 (confetti shot) and the 30d now takes 11 raw shots in a row, I use a card reader on my laptop (dont think i've ever plugged my 20d up to my pc! and the 30d has an improved battery display.

why would i need gps on my camera? sorry I cant see the point!
Click to expand...


This is your thread and you are asking us for our opinion yet you are contradicting the points being given! - GPS is there, who knows in 2 years you may be using it or you may not, it's there and available and that's what matters in terms of features! - if you are questioning the featureset in such a manner though then it's clearthe d200 isn't for you :) but personally I think it's just a simple case of you pondering the system change which will obviously be expensive unless you get good prices for your Canon stuff so are just trying to see the negative side of changing system!

I did the same too, ask divine madness for all the pokes and jokes I made in early months and look! I'm using a Nikon with Nikkor glass and liking it! who would have thought!

I have indeed eaten my words and both brands I like because where one excels in one area the other makes up for in another. This will never change of course until people out there buying mid range to beginner dslrs start to see models from fuji, kodak, sony and panasonic as well as others on the shop shelves, that's when stuff will get interesting. I just hope Canon and Nikon don't start to skimp out when this happens because there is no way the other brands can compete with the quality of Canon and Nikon in *** dSLR market but if they drop their prices too mch they may have to make up for it by cutting corners :/
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom