Anybody know about loft conversions ?

[MassiveJim]

We have a new build house so that means unfortunately we have a truss style roof (more work and more expense)

I would like to find out roughly what cost I would have to convert my loft space to a useable "space", the reason I say space is realistically the rooms on the 1st floor are so small we couldn't afford to lose space out of any of those rooms to make way for a staircase, so I would have to have access to this space via a loft ladder.
I plan on making the room my office which is currently in bedroom 3.

the timbers in the loft are 5 x 2, am I right in thinking I would need to upgrade toi a 7 x 2 to support a floor without causing esxcess stress on ceilings and door frames in the floor below ?


Most loft conversion places want £10k+
As I will never be able to fully and properly convert the room, how much would I be looking at to fit the new floor beams and move the trusses/add new supports for the roof.

The rest of the work I could either do myself or get done later.

for example
I could fit the floor,
I could install insulation in the roof and plasterboard over it.
I could run wire for lighting and sockets then have an electrician connect my wiring to the house and check he is happy with my wiring.


I seem to think I could save quite a bit of money doing it this way and I am not bothered about it ever being classed as a proper room. it will just create office space for me to work in.

 

[TFC]

You will never get away with that, you will need planning permission and building control who will require among other things, a staircase.
Again it would depend on, the available ceiling height of the finished unit to see if the project is even a starter.

 

[Derek W]

I do love these bodge type jobs. If you're going to do it, do it properly.

Alarm points listed :-

New build = minimum material to maximise profit (not much room for 'error')

am I right in thinking I would need to upgrade toi a 7 x 2 to support a floor without causing esxcess stress on ceilings and door frames in the floor below = no because we don't know how far you're trying to span with the floor and if there any loadbearing partitions below to split the span.

Most loft conversion places want £10k+ As I will never be able to fully and properly convert the room = See opening statement to my response.

I could run wire for lighting and sockets then have an electrician connect my wiring to the house and check he is happy with my wiring. = sparkies are self certifying so doubt he would put his name to your work so if your house burned down due to an electrical fault who would you blame and do you think your insurance would pay out?

I seem to think I could save quite a bit of money doing it this way and I am not bothered about it ever being classed as a proper room. = but you'll not be able to sell the property if after you've done it and no one in their right mind will touch it without the proper warrants.

But other than that, yeah you should be fine in converting it as you've stated.....

 

[MassiveJim]

See that is the thing I don't want it classifying as a room as there simply isn't enough space to install a staircase.

I know that people have access to loft spaces via ladders, what is the issue with it ?
Is it fire regs or something ?

There is plenty of headroom by the way. But a full on loft conversion is off the cards
a - because of available space for additional staircase
b - because of cost.

 

[MassiveJim]

I do love these bodge type jobs. If you're going to do it, do it properly.
you say do it properly but I have said below that I can't due to the house being small anyway which leaves nowhere to install a staircase. the 2 smaller bedrooms as an example are roughly 3m x 2.4m, I would basicly lose one of these rooms if I installed a staircase, which in that case isn't worth doing as the cost outlay to properly convert the attic wouldn't actually gain me and real additional space or add value to the house due to it still having the same number of rooms, ie I would spend 10k+ for absolutely nothing

Alarm points listed :-

New build = minimum material to maximise profit (not much room for 'error')
please expand on this point
am I right in thinking I would need to upgrade toi a 7 x 2 to support a floor without causing esxcess stress on ceilings and door frames in the floor below = no because we don't know how far you're trying to span with the floor and if there any loadbearing partitions below to split the span.
who would know or how would I find out if the partitions below were load bearing ? and assuming that there aren't any, what additional work are we talking about ? Haven't measured the space exactly but it is roughly 4m x 4m

Most loft conversion places want £10k+ As I will never be able to fully and properly convert the room = See opening statement to my response.

I could run wire for lighting and sockets then have an electrician connect my wiring to the house and check he is happy with my wiring. = sparkies are self certifying so doubt he would put his name to your work so if your house burned down due to an electrical fault who would you blame and do you think your insurance would pay out?
moot point really, I would consult said sparky first and understand what he is or isn't willing to do and make sure the work was a - safe and b - certified

I seem to think I could save quite a bit of money doing it this way and I am not bothered about it ever being classed as a proper room. = but you'll not be able to sell the property if after you've done it and no one in their right mind will touch it without the proper warrants.
Any work done will need to have proper certs I understand this, for example messing around with roof trusses so I don't expect it to be done proper cheap cheap just don't want to spend 10k. I don't want to sell the loft space as additional space either, it is purely for me to use

But other than that, yeah you should be fine in converting it as you've stated.....

Thanks for your advice/comments, please see my responses in bold

 

[lord filbuster]

Thanks for your advice/comments, please see my responses in bold

We had a loft conversion done a few years ago, and from what I remember a staircase is pretty much mandatory, not sure whether one of those folding ones would be allowed.

Also, whilst you are now allowed to have non registered electricians perform work and get it checked and signed off by a third party, the odds of you finding a spark that is willing to sign off work you have done yourself is minuscule at best.

We also had to have proper plans drawn up and the plans and house checked by a surveyor to make sure it was all above board and safe.

New build = minimum material to maximise profit (not much room for 'error')
please expand on this point

I think he meant that the materials used to build the house can support just the load of the house plus the bare minimum of a safety margin, meaning the load of a new extension has to be planned very carefully.

 

[Derek W]

Partly to do with Fire regulations when you have a building over three floors but since you want just an access hatch you can get a half hour fire rated hatch if you are wanting to pursue this.

New build = minimum material to maximise profit (not much room for 'error')
please expand on this point

I typically work with timber frame construction but I'll assume your house is block cavity with block partitions?

When i state that theres no room for error I'm referring to the manufacturer will use the minimum amount of timber for the house to be stable (in this case the roof structure) but any type of alteration / future expansion you'll need to beef things up considerably.

am I right in thinking I would need to upgrade toi a 7 x 2 to support a floor without causing esxcess stress on ceilings and door frames in the floor below = no because we don't know how far you're trying to span with the floor and if there any loadbearing partitions below to split the span.
who would know or how would I find out if the partitions below were load bearing ? and assuming that there aren't any, what additional work are we talking about ? Haven't measured the space exactly but it is roughly 4m x 4m

the space you want to work with is approx 4 x 4 m but the trusses will either be free spanning external wall to external wall or will have a mid support (loadbearing wall). Typically these can be identified if there is a 'spine' wall running the full length of the building which line up on both floors, quite often these will be at one side of the corridor / stair opening. Regardless of whether you do or dont have any loadbearing partitions you would need to have floor joists which run the full width of your house so that they are supported at both ends. This throws up the issue of any pipework / fixtures which are already in place. Any roof transplants that we do we raise the floor level by about 100 mm so that all existing services / ceilings remain untouched.

Sparky - I'm assuming you know a sparky personally as I would doubt someone would certify someone elses work / certify a 'homer' where you're essentially doing their job for them i.e a job missed out for them.

Any work done will need to have proper certs I understand this, for example messing around with roof trusses so I don't expect it to be done proper cheap cheap just don't want to spend 10k. I don't want to sell the loft space as additional space either, it is purely for me to use

Regardless of whether the space is just for you if you do decide to sell in the future when your estate agent is looking around your property they will look in the loft and if its all lined / insulated with electrics they will include it in the schedule as useable space which a buyers solicitor will look for the paperwork for.

I've had first hand experience of this when a client phoned in requiring a retrospective building warrant where they had carried out the work using planning drawings (no construction details) over 10 years ago and wanted to sell their house the buyers solicitor flagged it up and he had to rip out parts of the plasterboard so that insulation etc could be upgraded to a better standard since he didn't get a warrant at the time of works.

 

[MassiveJim]

Partly to do with Fire regulations when you have a building over three floors but since you want just an access hatch you can get a half hour fire rated hatch if you are wanting to pursue this.



I typically work with timber frame construction but I'll assume your house is block cavity with block partitions?

When i state that theres no room for error I'm referring to the manufacturer will use the minimum amount of timber for the house to be stable (in this case the roof structure) but any type of alteration / future expansion you'll need to beef things up considerably.



the space you want to work with is approx 4 x 4 m but the trusses will either be free spanning external wall to external wall or will have a mid support (loadbearing wall). Typically these can be identified if there is a 'spine' wall running the full length of the building which line up on both floors, quite often these will be at one side of the corridor / stair opening. Regardless of whether you do or dont have any loadbearing partitions you would need to have floor joists which run the full width of your house so that they are supported at both ends. This throws up the issue of any pipework / fixtures which are already in place. Any roof transplants that we do we raise the floor level by about 100 mm so that all existing services / ceilings remain untouched.

Sparky - I'm assuming you know a sparky personally as I would doubt someone would certify someone elses work / certify a 'homer' where you're essentially doing their job for them i.e a job missed out for them.



Regardless of whether the space is just for you if you do decide to sell in the future when your estate agent is looking around your property they will look in the loft and if its all lined / insulated with electrics they will include it in the schedule as useable space which a buyers solicitor will look for the paperwork for.

I've had first hand experience of this when a client phoned in requiring a retrospective building warrant where they had carried out the work using planning drawings (no construction details) over 10 years ago and wanted to sell their house the buyers solicitor flagged it up and he had to rip out parts of the plasterboard so that insulation etc could be upgraded to a better standard since he didn't get a warrant at the time of works.

Thanks for that.
There is no load bearing wall in the house at all, apart from externals.
build is block cavity, brick external walls, only internal walls are upstairs and they are timber frame clad with plasterboard.

Sparky side of things, I understand what you are saying, I would either do it myself and get one to signoff the work OR just get them to do the work I don't need a lot of sockets etc so it wouldn't be too much extra cost on the whole project.

But from what you are saying it doesn't sound like I would get permission to do this without having a staircase which kind of makes the whole idea pointless.

 

[cjgardens]

Not read you full post, but it depends on the spec of the work you want doing. A few of my friends are in that game, you can do it cheap or the proper way.

Look about, get a few quotes, use Google. Will save you a lot of money and get you what you want.

Don't pay cash till the job is done. If they can't afford materials go somewhere else....

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

My dad did our loft conversion himself. It's not a full blown "proper" loft conversion but it has been used for a variety of purposes since it was done over 10 years ago. Might be a bit different to yours as the house is a 1930's semi.

He put in a retractable wooden staircase which we pull down to get in the loft. Boarded the floor and laid carpet down. Boarded all the walls and put extra insulation in, he left little door openings on either side so you can still access the "voids". He got a pro to fit a Velux rooflight when we were having our roof redone.

Room can't be classed as a proper bedroom, but its habitable as my brother used to use it as his bedroom for quite a few years, then we he left home we used it as a bit of a gym, now its used as storage and a make shift music studio for my stuff!

It definitely can be done yourself, it just wont be able to be classified as an extra bedroom due to the non-permanent stairs but I wouldn't get hung up on that!

 

[MassiveJim]

what kind of paperwork needs completing to make the whole thing legit once it has been finished ?

 

[mattyg]

Surely boarding out the loft floor is pretty standard nowadays so you can store stuff up there.


Adding a few lights helps you find things youve stored up there.

Adding a few sockets its just another step.

How many people used to put model trainsets up in the loft.

Yeah if you want to do it right its going to cost but for all intent and purposes its just a boarded loft

 

[TFC]

what kind of paperwork needs completing to make the whole thing legit once it has been finished ?

That is the point... it will not be legit and there is no paperwork for you, as mattyg has pointed out all you can really do is board out your loft... but using it as an office, hello damaged ceilings below.

 

[MassiveJim]

Conflicting info in this thread.

Some say it cannot be legit unless "done properly"
others say it can be boarded out and would be fine.

and TFC I do not want to use it as a permanent room without first strengthening the floor (as per my original post)

Suppose I had better speak with a builder.

 

[ci_newman]

Boarding is one thing, boarding it so you can use it as a regularly "usable" space is something quite different.

As you've mentioned, speak to a builder or the council planning dept.

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

Directly in the middle of the floor in our loft there is a wall underneath (doesnt come up into the loft) that runs to the ground so we've had no problems with ceiling cracks etc. Has held the weigh perfectly fine, even when we had a big multigym up there! (Sorry for my poor terminology)

 

[Wh00pS]

Conflicting info in this thread.

Some say it cannot be legit unless "done properly"
others say it can be boarded out and would be fine.

and TFC I do not want to use it as a permanent room without first strengthening the floor (as per my original post)

Suppose I had better speak with a builder.

It can be "legit". It just can't be listed as a livable space if you ever come to sell your house.

 

[£15]

Regardless of whether the space is just for you if you do decide to sell in the future when your estate agent is looking around your property they will look in the loft and if its all lined / insulated with electrics they will include it in the schedule as useable space which a buyers solicitor will look for the paperwork for.

Or tell them not to? I sold my house last year and the fully boarded-out loft, with electrics and fold-away ladder, was declared as nothing more than a boarded loft for storage. It was not an issue.

We have a new build house so that means unfortunately we have a truss style roof (more work and more expense).

It's your very first sentence that sets alarm-bells ringing for me and I would not do what you are considering. If it had been a 'real' house, i.e. built more than 75 years ago, then I would consider it.

 

[a1ex2001]

Or tell them not to? I sold my house last year and the fully boarded-out loft, with electrics and fold-away ladder, was declared as nothing more than a boarded loft for storage. It was not an issue.

This it's perfectly legit to sell a house with a converted loft or sellar that wasn't done to specs and just list them as storage space.

Ignore the people saying sparkies won't touch your work, plenty will sign off first fix work done by others as it's a crappy job they don't want to do and they still make nearly the same money for doing the second fix and certifying so they don't need to get dirty.

If your not bothered about regs I'd just inulae board and install a ladder chances are it will be fine, I knew loads of people growing up who had loft like that as play rooms etc. I wouldn't want it as an office though for any serious length of time as the lack of natural light would make it horrible to be there for any length of time!

 

[danza]

How about a garden office? That'll probably add more value to the property than a boarded-out and prepped loft space.

It'll be painfully hot in a loft at this time of year too, especially if you don't ventilate it.