Anyone else fed up of mass-produced, disposable carp?

Yes and I will typically buy second hand when it comes to tools etc for that reason, and various home appliances are very old... Our vacuum cleaner is the original Dyson DC-01 for example. Because it works. :p

Bought a more expensive modern one with a ball at one point, it was flimsy and cheap and constantly breaking in various ways... Back to the old one which is approaching 25 years old.

Same thing with fans, the fan I have in my bedroom is older than me... I had a modern one, it broke. Back to the old one...
 
Raymond Lin said:
perhaps leather is the wrong material for the job you want to do in this instance?
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^^^ this, quite possibly. I got some decent "gardening" gloves quite a while ago - they seemed to do the job fine though were only part leather.

On the subject in general - while things might be more commonly available in a cheaper/more disposable format stuff that lasts is generally still available. I'm not sure it necessarily is more expensive (relatively, compared to what it used to be) but just more expensive relatively, to current cheap stuff.

Obvious solution - just don't buy the cheap stuff... with the amount of information we have available and the ability to just order online and have stuff turn up this is very much into "first world problems" territory. As for "slave labour" force etc.. that's standard FoxEye moaning about the world stuff - don't buy stuff made by "slaves" if you're keen to avoid it, give your money to independent businesses etc..

The amount of "stuff" people own has grown massively in the past couple of generations. No reason why you can't still but a decent pair of shoes/boots say from a proper show maker.

No one is forcing you to fill your home with Ikea furniture (not that Ikea is all bad), you're free to buy second hand, antiques, mid century modern stuff etc...

I reckon a modern Toyota probably lasts a fair bit longer than an old Austin or other stuff from British Leyland.

I'd avoid cheaply made laptops - granted I have ironically had some issues with my MacBook Pro, I'd got an older MacBook and older Dell laptop that are both rock solid though.
 
@FoxEye I'm still using a pair of in ear Sony headphones that came from a Walkman in 1992 with the iPad, while the others are in the bin that was bought over the last few years. Cables perished away and eventually broke. Yet the Sony is still flexible and not perishing.
 
Totally agree with the OP. I would much rather seek out high quality, well made items.

I detest websites like WISH that just make the cheapest carp that is high carbon footprint, a waste of natural resource and sucks money out of our economy.

I understand why people buy cheap, but a lot of the time it comes down to the unwillingness to save to buy something decent, because they want it NOW.
 
Depends on the item for me. When I bought my current flat, I needed a sofa. Went to a few places and Raft for instance had their selling point as it's a bit expensive, but will last 20+ years.

For me, I don't want that. Tastes change. What fits in this flat, won't fit in another flat (it's not a long term property for me, and I know that). I don't want a sofa that will last me 20+ years. I want something comfortable, that will last me 5 or so and I won't mind after that replacing it with something else. If I spent the moon on it, I wouldn't be comfortable with wasting that much and replacing it after 5 years so would feel obliged to keep it, not necessarily because I liked it but because of how much I spent on it.
 
dowie said:
I'd avoid cheaply made laptops - granted I have ironically had some issues with my MacBook Pro, I'd got an older MacBook and older Dell laptop that are both rock solid though.
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I'm not completely sure about laptops - I mean, I still have a 20 year old Vaio that "works" fine, but isn't much use for doing anything on :p

I don't need a particularly high performance or portable one for anything I do, and as such feel I'm probably better off spending £400 odd every 3 years or so than £1000 on one to last. Would it still work in 8-10 years? Well hopefully, but by that point my most recent cheap-ish one would be that much newer and be a noticeable upgrade on what I was using, plus battery wear etc.
 
FoxEye said:
Why? Why have we ended up here?

Does nobody want well-made any more? Does everybody want to replace their stuff on a (very) regular basis? Does everybody want cheap and nasty?
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you do realise modern products are heavily stress tested and designed to fail.

there's a term for it measured in hours a product will last before failure but I can't recall what it is.
MTBF?


they all know how long your washing machine, fridge, freezer, microwave etc will last almost down to the exact month.

mid end washing machines are expected to last around 2000 cycles and the avg brit does 2.6 cycles per week
 
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Feef said:
I'm not completely sure about laptops - I mean, I still have a 20 year old Vaio that "works" fine, but isn't much use for doing anything on :p
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Maybe some lightweight linux distro? (reckon you could get it up and running again!). George R.R. Martin writes the Song of Fire and Ice novels (Game of thrones etc..) on an older computer than that - old PC running DOS and WordStar! I mean at least yours perhaps shipped with windows 98?

I don't need a particularly high performance or portable one for anything I do, and as such feel I'm probably better off spending £400 odd every 3 years or so than £1000 on one to last. Would it still work in 8-10 years? Well hopefully, but by that point my most recent cheap-ish one would be that much newer and be a noticeable upgrade on what I was using, plus battery wear etc.
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Well your needs suit a cheap one you can dispose of - I don't think the thread is knocking that. Personally I'd rather invest in something a bit better. The backup Dell laptop I have is rather more dated - like over 6 years old now... it's running Linux Mint, it's got 16GB or RAM, a 256GB SSD and an older i5 processor... it's still pretty snappy and is fine for coding etc.. obvs the screen isn't as nice as the Mac, the touchpad isn't as nice and it doesn't have OSx, but it does the job.

If you're paying £400 for a new laptop then you're usually getting something plastic and with a rather basic touchpad, basic spec etc... you're not getting one of the decent Dell or Mac offerings at that price.
 
arknor said:
there's a term for it measured in hours a product will last before failure but I can't recall what it is.
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MTBF ;)

Acme said:
Same thing with fans, the fan I have in my bedroom is older than me... I had a modern one, it broke. Back to the old one...
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If your old one worked WHY would you buy a new one? You only buy new things when the old things break and no longer are fixable.
 
arknor said:
you do realise modern products are heavily stress tested and designed to fail.

there's a term for it measured in hours a product will last before failure but I can't recall what it is.


they all know how long your washing machine, fridge, freezer, microwave etc will last almost down to the exact month.
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Planned obsolescence.

Yes and no. Is the battery degrade? yes, is the OS no longer support? Yes but I doubt my guitar is going to fail any time soon or in my life time, or my B+W speakers or even my iMac. The one I got from 2009 still works. My Gaggia Classic is like 15 years old now.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Planned obsolescence.

Yes and no. Is the battery degrade? yes, is the OS no longer support? Yes but I doubt my guitar is going to fail any time soon or in my life time, or my B+W speakers or even my iMac. The one I got from 2009 still works. My Gaggia Classic is like 15 years old now.
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Thats projected life time a marketing term.

I was thinking of MTBF or MTF

good article on it here in respect to washing machines.
https://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help...e/2948-how-long-should-a-washing-machine-last

you know its the same for everything else you can easily cycle an oven element in a lab going hot and cold over and over until it corrodes or whatever and stops working.


I guess for electronics the most obvious way is to skimp on capacitors and use the cheapest crap that will dry out or leak instead of using some long life solid version.

they already are rated for XXX hours at XX temperature so that makes it easy
 
arknor said:
Thats projected life time a marketing term.

I was thinking of MTBF or MTF

good article on it here in respect to washing machines.
https://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help...e/2948-how-long-should-a-washing-machine-last

you know its the same for everything else you can easily cycle an oven element in a lab going hot and cold over and over until it corrodes or whatever and stops working.


I guess for electronics the most obvious way is to skimp on capacitors and use the cheapest crap that will dry out or leak instead of using some long life solid version.

they already are rated for XXX hours at XX temperature so that makes it easy
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The big bad EU are creating some legislation to ensure products are repairable and that spare parts are made available for a period of 10 years. I think there's something about products having to last longer as well.
 
People want to replace things with the new fashionable item long before they ever stop working anyway. Buying new TVs when the old one works perfectly well, it just isn’t 65” like the neighbours one. I buy clothes at primark for pennies and wear them for years and years until they wear out. Others would buy from primark, wear once or twice and throw away and buy new again. They probably don’t save any money buying this way but they definitely don’t want to buy the single more expensive item that will last them years because they WANT to change their wardrobe/decor/whatever every few days/weeks/months.
 
arknor said:
they all know how long your washing machine, fridge, freezer, microwave etc will last almost down to the exact month.
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Nope, not really - they might know on average but there is generally a distribution - with say white goods that range could cover a few years.

Most people who've taken a probability course at university might well have covered this when looking at hazard functions/survival analysis (if anyone can remember the old "new better than old" "old better than new" problems and the Weibull distribution).
 
mrochester said:
People want to replace things with the new fashionable item long before they ever stop working anyway. Buying new TVs when the old one works perfectly well, it just isn’t 65” like the neighbours one. I buy clothes at primark for pennies and wear them for years and years until they wear out. Others would buy from primark, wear once or twice and throw away and buy new again. They probably don’t save any money buying this way but they definitely don’t want to buy the single more expensive item that will last them years because they WANT to change their wardrobe/decor/whatever every few days/weeks/months.
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It's the dream people are sold.

Look at the example set by the royals.. and celebrities..

Does the queen wear her clothes more than once?
The queen has worn some of the same dresses more than once, but when she does it’s always planned. Like when she wore the same detailed pastel blue coat and matching dress during a visit to Malta at the Eden Foundation in Zetjun as well as Ladies Day At Royal Ascot in 2008.

The Telegraph noted that careful measures are in place to make sure Her Majesty doesn’t repeat outfits. Her dressing actually team logs each piece she wears and on what day to avoid repetition.
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Wearing the same clothes more than once is considered.. common! That's the dream we're sold by 21st century society.

Of course it's crap but people just do what their told, following the example set by celebrity, royalty.. the people they look to as their role models.

e: Also have a nice DM link (GD loves them)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...ren-t-pictured-outfit-twice-social-media.html

"Women desperate not to be tagged wearing the same outfit more than once on social media."

Five years on, I expect a lot of men now behave the same way.
 
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Apple are probably one of the least reliable laptops you can buy

got a 2015 MacBook Pro and a 2017 MacBook Pro. 6 major repairs between them

battered 3yr old £350 hp laptop that’s had nothing more than a ram upgrade to add 16gb into it and it’s still going strong without any issues whatsoever
 
233 said:
Apple are probably one of the least reliable laptops you can buy

got a 2015 MacBook Pro and a 2017 MacBook Pro. 6 major repairs between them

battered 3yr old £350 hp laptop that’s had nothing more than a ram upgrade to add 16gb into it and it’s still going strong without any issues whatsoever
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Yet I had an Apple MacBook Air 13” from 2011 and I only sold it in 2019. I never once in that time had a repair and it was only formatted twice.
 
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