Anyone else going to try this?

geordiejc · 11 Dec 2017 at 19:22

i'm sold... except for the coil whine.

Doogles · 11 Dec 2017 at 20:43

Not at all, if I wanted to cool it like that then a full on waterloop would be better, think about it those coolers cost £70 each, you can get a half decent loop for £200 for both the GPU/CPU. I hate to think how heavy and difficult it would be to move the PC with that setup, nice idea but not very practical.

doyll · 11 Dec 2017 at 21:39

Interesting bit of sophisticated ghetto cooling.

There are a few good aftermarket GPU air coolers out there that work very well for similar .. maybe even less money.

Ross Thomson · 12 Dec 2017 at 10:04

kraken G12 on my msi gaming X rx480 temps went from 72 to 38C and that's overclocked to 1400/2100 +15mv +50% power

doyll · 12 Dec 2017 at 10:26

Ross Thomson said:
kraken G12 on my msi gaming X rx480 temps went from 72 to 38C and that's overclocked to 1400/2100 +15mv +50% power

My guess is you had very poor case airflow before you changed to CLC .. probably still do. What cooler do you have of CPU and what case do you have?

Ross Thomson · 12 Dec 2017 at 11:32

doyll said:
My guess is you had very poor case airflow before you changed to CLC .. probably still do. What cooler do you have of CPU and what case do you have?

your guess would be wrong. temps were normal for the card on air. The card had plenty of cold air blowing onto it to use.

doyll · 12 Dec 2017 at 12:07

Ross Thomson said:
your guess would be wrong. temps were normal for the card on air. The card had plenty of cold air blowing onto it to use.

Using water cooling on GPU's makes more sense then on CPU because of how poorly GPU coolers flow their heated exhaust .. and a tower cooler like D14 on GPU gives us good separation of cool intake air from heated exhaust air. This is why tower coolers on CPU work so much better than pancake coolers.

But for the sake of discussion:

What was the temp of air going into your GPU cooler fans and what was the temp of air in room?
My guess is you did not actually monitor the temp of air going into cooler, so just saying 'temps were normal for the card on air' doesn't really give us any data to use in determining anything.

GPU intake air temp that is 'normal' in stock case is generally much higher than what is 'normal' temp in same case when airflow has been optimized. It is quite common when gaming for the air going into GPU in a case with stock fans to be 15-20c warmer than room after s10 or 15 minutes of gaming. But when case airflow is optimized for components being used it will be 2-5c. This means GPU temps will be 15-18c lower in case with airflow optimized to components in it then in stock setup.

Ross Thomson · 12 Dec 2017 at 13:02

doyll said:
Using water cooling on GPU's makes more sense then on CPU because of how poorly GPU coolers flow their heated exhaust .. and a tower cooler like D14 on GPU gives us good separation of cool intake air from heated exhaust air. This is why tower coolers on CPU work so much better than pancake coolers.

But for the sake of discussion:

What was the temp of air going into your GPU cooler fans and what was the temp of air in room?
My guess is you did not actually monitor the temp of air going into cooler, so just saying 'temps were normal for the card on air' doesn't really give us any data to use in determining anything.

GPU intake air temp that is 'normal' in stock case is generally much higher than what is 'normal' temp in same case when airflow has been optimized. It is quite common when gaming for the air going into GPU in a case with stock fans to be 15-20c warmer than room after s10 or 15 minutes of gaming. But when case airflow is optimized for components being used it will be 2-5c. This means GPU temps will be 15-18c lower in case with airflow optimized to components in it then in stock setup.

you don't have to determine anything 72C is normal operating temp for the card and well below max. some people get more some people get less. I could get less if I redid the thermal past and pushed the fans with an aggressive curve.. If was anal about it I could bring temp sensors from the lab and measure temps all around the outside of the case and inside but I'm not that sad.

doyll · 12 Dec 2017 at 13:20

Ross Thomson said:
you don't have to determine anything 72C is normal operating temp for the card and well below max. some people get more some people get less. I could get less if I redid the thermal past and pushed the fans with an aggressive curve.. If was anal about it I could bring temp sensors from the lab and measure temps all around the outside of the case and inside but I'm not that sad.

Okay, I get it. You think I'm 'anal' and 'sad' because I think it's good to supply GPU and CPU coolers with air close to room temp.

Your train of though would make it 'anal' and 'sad' for a person to tune the car to get the best power and lowers fuel consumption.

Because optimizing case airflow is same kind of logic as tuning a car.

Ross Thomson · 12 Dec 2017 at 13:33

doyll said:
Okay, I get it. You think I'm 'anal' and 'sad' because I think it's good to supply GPU and CPU coolers with air close to room temp.

Your train of though would make it 'anal' and 'sad' for a person to tune the car to get the best power and lowers fuel consumption.

Because optimizing case airflow is same kind of logic as tuning a car.

I just don't care - if I had something wrong with the temps then sure I would investigate or if I was paid to do so but I'm not. my fans are quiet, my CPU and GPU temps are low.

MassiveJim · 12 Dec 2017 at 14:06

Ross Thomson said:
you don't have to determine anything 72C is normal operating temp for the card and well below max. some people get more some people get less. I could get less if I redid the thermal past and pushed the fans with an aggressive curve.. If was anal about it I could bring temp sensors from the lab and measure temps all around the outside of the case and inside but I'm not that sad.

wrong forum to say something like this to be honest.
Personally I agree with you in the sense that I would not go to the lengths you suggest, however I would not go so far as to call someone "sad" for wanting to do it.

some would call you sad for example for watercooling a PC

doyll · 12 Dec 2017 at 14:20

MassiveJim said:
wrong forum to say something like this to be honest.
Personally I agree with you in the sense that I would not go to the lengths you suggest, however I would not go so far as to call someone "sad" for wanting to do it.

some would call you sad for example for watercooling a PC

Not many would think it 'sad' for water cooling, but many would like it 'sad' to use a CLC.

Honestly, with how poorly GPU coolers are at keeping their heated exhaust air from mixing into cool intake air is a very good reason to water cool them, especially if running 2x or 3x GPUs .. but many of us who know better realize how poorly built and designed CLCs are .. even though the do surprisingly well considering their poor quality, cheap aluminum radiator and pump flow rate slower than what many of you young guys can pee after a few beers.

Ross Thomson · 12 Dec 2017 at 14:30

nothing wrong with aluminum as a radiator - air coolers are made from aluminum remember.

doyll · 12 Dec 2017 at 14:44

Ross Thomson said:
nothing wrong with aluminum as a radiator - air coolers are made from aluminum remember.

Copper radiators transfer heat to airflow much better than aluminum radiators. Especially cheaply built ones like used in CLCs. A lot of this has to do with copper transfers heat almost 2 times better than aluminum does, so radiators with copper cores with copper fins transfer the heat out into the fins much better than aluminum cores and fins do. That and I haven't seen any quality aluminum radiators on the market.

Good quality air coolers have copper bases and as far as I know all heatpipes in coolers use copper tubing,

Ross Thomson · 12 Dec 2017 at 15:26

doyll said:
Copper radiators transfer heat to airflow much better than aluminum radiators. Especially cheaply built ones like used in CLCs. A lot of this has to do with copper transfers heat almost 2 times better than aluminum does, so radiators with copper cores with copper fins transfer the heat out into the fins much better than aluminum cores and fins do. That and I haven't seen any quality aluminum radiators on the market.

Good quality air coolers have copper bases and as far as I know all heatpipes in coolers use copper tubing,

head uses copper to transfer heat into the liquid in aio/clc. alu is used in a lot of racecar rads as it is lighter. yes copper is better but alu isn't bad. Your air cooler still uses alu fins, the majority of the heat sink is alu. no one has said alu is a better metal for heat transfer either (its 1.7x better IIRC). car intercoolers and charge coolers are made out of aluminium not copper.

yes a copper rad will give the best possible heat absorption and if you get to the point of a alu radiator not absorbing enough heat then your AIO is crap but that's not happening in my system. EK make the fluid series which is all aluminum

doyll · 12 Dec 2017 at 16:11

Ross Thomson said:
head uses copper to transfer heat into the liquid in aio/clc. alu is used in a lot of racecar rads as it is lighter. yes copper is better but alu isn't bad. Your air cooler still uses alu fins, the majority of the heat sink is alu. no one has said alu is a better metal for heat transfer either (its 1.7x better IIRC). car intercoolers and charge coolers are made out of aluminium not copper.

yes a copper rad will give the best possible heat absorption and if you get to the point of a alu radiator not absorbing enough heat then your AIO is crap but that's not happening in my system. EK make the fluid series which is all aluminum

I guess you missed the last sentence of what I said about aluminum radiators.

" That and I haven't seen any quality aluminum radiators on the market."

I think the quality of CLC radiators is probably a big part of their low performance, but CLC pump flow rate of 40-60 L/h is also extremely low .. in fact unheard of in custom loops. Arguably the most popular pump used in custom loop is D5 .. flow rate up to 1500 L/h .. 25-37 times more than CLC pumps.

Yeah, where weight is critical aluminum radiators are often uses .. quality aluminum raditors .. which are light and day differences to what CLC radiator quality is.

I've not see EK fluid series radiators, only XE, PE and SE series.

Somewhere back in my memory I remember a test / review of aluminum vs copper radiators in custom loops and aluminum ones did not work near as well as copper ones did .. but I can't find that testing.

Ross Thomson · 12 Dec 2017 at 16:34

AIO/CLC's don't have low performance. A D5 over a AIO/CLC is worth about 7-9C but you don't need such a powerful pump for just the CPU. if you have multiple rads and multiple graphics cards on the one loop then of course you are going to need a better pump.

I didn't miss the last sentence. I don't think your opinion is valid on this matter.

doyll · 12 Dec 2017 at 18:29

Considering CLCs are all at the bottom of liquid cooling systems, I think it's fair to say they have low performance.

True, multiple waterblocks in loop do requre higher flow rates to keep coolant cool,but no 25-37 times as much flow .. and considers young men after a few pints ca **** a stonger flowrate than CLCs pumps I think it's fair to consider them low performance.

Ross Thomson · 13 Dec 2017 at 08:57

doyll said:
Considering CLCs are all at the bottom of liquid cooling systems, I think it's fair to say they have low performance.

True, multiple waterblocks in loop do requre higher flow rates to keep coolant cool,but no 25-37 times as much flow .. and considers young men after a few pints ca **** a stonger flowrate than CLCs pumps I think it's fair to consider them low performance.

urinary flow rate of a young man 21 ml/sec or 1.2 L per min
asetek 4th gen pump flow rate 33.3 ml/sec or 2 L per min

D5 has 10x the flow rate of a gen 4 asetek pump. The current gen 5 pump has a better flow rate than the gen 4.

aio/clc's might be the "bottom" of the water cooling systems but they still cool better than air

doyll · 13 Dec 2017 at 14:55

Ross Thomson said:
urinary flow rate of a young man 21 ml/sec or 1.2 L per min
asetek 4th gen pump flow rate 33.3 ml/sec or 2 L per min

D5 has 10x the flow rate of a gen 4 asetek pump. The current gen 5 pump has a better flow rate than the gen 4.

aio/clc's might be the "bottom" of the water cooling systems but they still cool better than air

Okay, urinary flow rate of youndg men is 21 ml/s, t converts to 0.012 L/sec; that is 75.6 L/h
While asetek does not publish pump flow or lift data it has been shown to be 40-60 L/h,

http://www.overclock.net/t/1312762/...r-thermaltake-water-2-0-performer-blocks/0_20
I also have some links to asetek, but it seems Asetek took them down because they no longer work.

I have not seen any data to verify/refute your 4th gen pump data so cannot agree/disagree.
33.3 ml/sec converts to 0.033 L/sec; 1.98 L/m; 118.8 L/h. I have never seen any data showing that high a flowrate.
New Enermax Liqtech TR4 is rated 450 L/h .. not sure who makes it. Other Liqtech coolers are made by Alpaltek.
Could you post a link to source of this data?

Here is link to chart of what I have been able to find.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/...g-airflow-cooler-fan-data/80_20#post_23828310