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anyone interested in 65 nm A64 x2

AMD Are unlikely to be producing Dual core CPU's with 1Mb cache in the near future. A rep from AMD told us, and we saw it in our sales, that the reason was that no one was buying any Series 1 Opteron CPU's as thier was no benefit over the equavalent X2 when they had 1Mb but the X2 was cheaper and AMD were loosing money.
 
fanboy -> of the best I can get yes, of Intel persae definately not, I've been shafted by Intel many times, I have a P4 for a start and I also bought into Rambus to see no 1066mhz chips available and then Intel drop the standard leaving me no choice but to move to DDR.

The fact people are finding it hard to accept C2D for the moment is king leaves me to beleive they are a fanboy!

I have no loyalties to any manufacturer whatsoever, if that was the case i'd still be getting Kingston HyperX memory, they have never let me down, but this time i'm getting Team, because the specs are higher.

I've been shafted by Asus, the support is rubbish, their components don't run properly together, but i'm not getting another Asus Mobo cause i'm a fan, i'm getting one because they are the only Mobo manufacturers making a board with all the features i desire, I'd rather get a Gigabyte as they have never let me down!

Fanboy - lol - I don't even follow football and have never had a pop poster on my wall, fanboy is one thing no-one could ever call me :D

(oh alright I love Fila & Kappa and am getting some really nice bright red Fila trainers for Christmas) - happy now! ;)
 
this_is_gav said:
Water, yes (well, it's possible in theory, but I doubt it could be realised), but there's nothing to stop air cooling being colder than ambient. Probably not at normal speed, but under-clocking a bit can do it. Basic aerodynamics.
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No you can't. If you're thinking of wind chill you need evaporation of water (sweat in the case of humans) to cool below ambient. Without it the best you can do is down to ambient.

Jokester
 
I thought they would have added more cache rather than removing it, as the the die was smaller...?
 
Anandtech have done a follow-up article on the 65nm AMD "Brisbane" processors, examining a couple of anomalies they noticed in the first one.

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2893

They noticed the specified core area hasn't scaled linearly downwards with the drop in process size; It's actually noticeably larger than expected.

Secondly, the 65nm versions performance running Q4 is actually a little lower than that of the 90nm one.
It turns out on further investigation, that the L2 cache latency is significantly higher in the new chips - basically a design decision on AMD's part - where you wouldn't necessarily expect any change from the 90nm version.

Upshot of this is the 65nm processors can be up to 4% slower under certain circumstances than the older 90nm ones.
 
Very interesting, looks like AMD have had all sorts of problems getting there cores to work properly on the new 65nm process.

Jokester
 
isnt there a performance drop at the start of a new line/process for every AMD chip compared to the old? then the process matures and things improve quite a bit

afaik, the aXPs were better than the comparable s754 chips but the way AMD tweaks things as they go during production meant the cpu's improved as they went on
 
Jokester said:
No you can't. If you're thinking of wind chill you need evaporation of water (sweat in the case of humans) to cool below ambient. Without it the best you can do is down to ambient.

Jokester
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Okay, you win this round, but I will add one final parting shot: Peltier :P
 
this_is_gav said:
Okay, you win this round, but I will add one final parting shot: Peltier :P
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This is a good shot indeed ;)

The question I would have is how quick the Peltier is to cool down the CPU. In my opinion for this to be efficient you need a massive Peltier. This might be the reason why I have not heard yet of a cooling system based on this technology, but the idea deserves attention.

I have observed one that is capable of keeping the temps of a quartz crystal microbalance in the limits of several 0.03 deg C, although it was handling about 100 microlitres chamber :). A CPU with its power (especially when overclocked) is a different story.
 
Eh? Bolt a 226W TEC to a CPU and you'll get subzero temps (at idle anyway), but that's nothing to with using ambient fluids to cool the CPU but using the Peltier effect.

Jokester
 
Jokester said:
Eh? Bolt a 226W TEC to a CPU and you'll get subzero temps (at idle anyway), but that's nothing to with using ambient fluids to cool the CPU but using the Peltier effect.

Jokester
Click to expand...

I had not known about this. But yes, you are right you could find powerfull enough to cool the CPU down.

Have you used it yourself (I guess the answer is yes) ;)
 
this_is_gav said:
Okay, you win this round, but I will add one final parting shot: Peltier :P
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or just use a liquid other than water with a lower boiling point, alcohol for instance evaporates at a little under 80*C, petroleum at a shave over 60*C, pentane at a few degrees above 35*C and butane at like -0.5*C or something, cause when the liquid evaporates the change in the molecular state of the material takes a lot of heat with it :) and to turn the new gas back into a liquid use of a compressor is needed :p
 
Jokester said:
Eh? Bolt a 226W TEC to a CPU and you'll get subzero temps (at idle anyway), but that's nothing to with using ambient fluids to cool the CPU but using the Peltier effect.
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No, no, I was merely referring to your 'can't get lower than ambient temps with air/water' (peltier-based coolers are air-cooled, technically). It was just a cheap shot by a defeated man ;)

@ PaulProteus: Swiftech made ready assembled Peltier coolers back in the Athlon XP days. Didn't really catch on, but they were effective.
 
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tomos said:
isnt there a performance drop at the start of a new line/process for every AMD chip compared to the old? then the process matures and things improve quite a bit

afaik, the aXPs were better than the comparable s754 chips but the way AMD tweaks things as they go during production meant the cpu's improved as they went on
Click to expand...

That was different cores, different clock speeds, this is merely a die shrink so if everything was the same clock for clock they would be the same. As they've found out though, whatever AMD did to actually get it to work on the new process has resulted in it actually running slower.

Jokester
 
Gashman said:
or just use a liquid other than water with a lower boiling point, alcohol for instance evaporates at a little under 80*C, petroleum at a shave over 60*C, pentane at a few degrees above 35*C and butane at like -0.5*C or something, cause when the liquid evaporates the change in the molecular state of the material takes a lot of heat with it :) and to turn the new gas back into a liquid use of a compressor is needed :p
Click to expand...

Fix a fridge next to your PC, pass some tubings in and ... voila things should look fine :D
 
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