Anyone know much about Enduro/supermoto bikes?

[Amp34]

After looking at the post your bike thread and seeing the cr450 supermoto my dad called me down to show me some bike videos on youtube... Fate obviously...

Anyway i'm thinking about getting my bike licence as soon as finish with the car licence and always wanted to get some kind of off roader instead of a sports bike. I'm a bit out of the game at the moment with regards to what's out there, the last time I looked seriously was when I was 17 (a while ago...). As I mentioned earlier my dad would probably be interested in sharing/using the bike for a bit of heavy trail use but i'd also want to use it as an "every day bike". At the moment we actually have an old kawasaki kt250 in the shed (70s era) and another even older trials bike that my dad used to ride, so he would be thinking about that sort of thing.

So yeah what sort of bikes are around for a bit of general riding on and off road? I used to be quite interested in getting a Suzuki DRZ400, they still a good bet? Would a 250cc be too small really, something like a 2 stroke Husky or KTM at that size? I was thinking maybe it would be better to get a supermoto as it would be used on road more than off and have this (almost certainly wrong) idea that it's a 20 minute job of changing the wheels/tyres to turn one into a proper off roader...

So with all that in mind what would people suggest and what sort of price would I be paying for a reasonable used model?

(I'm over 21 so AFAIK don't need to worry about restricting or bhp issues but obviously as it's a first bike I'm not interested in something massive, just want to have a bit of fun off road and on).

 

[Mil17B]

I'm not entirely sure on what your question is but here are some thoughts.

If buying a normal road legal DRZ rather than a SM version, it will have smaller, less powerful front brake and you will need rubber bits in the footpegs. You will need to buy road wheels which are smaller than off road wheels. Possibly some other small bits that I can't currently think of.

And the opposite would be true if trying to put knobblys a SM version.

A two stroke off road bike would potentially be quite tiring and hardcore, with a narrow power band and small service intervals (Posssibly talking hours in the extremer spectrums).

A DRZ400SM 57,08 plate with about 2000 miles. Expected to pay inbetween 2400-3200. Sorry about this large difference, prices fluctuate a lot in season and with Europe buying second hand bikes in the UK.

 

[Amp34]

My questions were:

Recommend me a trail/enduro bike for mostly onroad use but some off road and
Would a supermoto be reasonably easy to convert for a bit more off road fun?



So I do need to look for a 4t really, and probably a supermoto that I can then swap wheel because it will be better on road.

Did they do the SM earlier than the 57? I'd hope nearer the £2k mark if i'm honest, which I guess is pushing it a little?

 

[i-bert]

You want to visit seventeeninches.co.uk

I'm sure I saw a DRZ on there just lately for about 2K.

I used to have a 56 DRZ400SM but i never converted it for off-road so I can't help you there, but If I were buying one now I'd go for the 400E. It had a much better carb.

 

[PardonTheWait]

As Mil17B said, there's not a huge amount of difference between some Enduro bikes and their SM counterparts, but it is enough to be a stumbling block if you want something to do both cheap.

If you buy the enduro type of bike, you're looking at a big brake setup and a set of wide 17s with matching rubber to get it to SM, which isn't particularly cheap.

If you buy an SM sort of bike, you still need another set of wheels and for MX/Enduro stuff, you're probably looking at similar money really, aftermarket off road wheels will tend to be Talon hubs with Excel rims like you get on MX bikes, and as an aftermarket thing it won't be pennies.

Suspension setup for both is quite different too, much stiffer for a supermoto.

But the thing is, the DRZ (not SM) won't be completely useless on the road, no it won't be like a supermoto because it'll be softer, it'll have a 21 inch front wheel, it'll have knobblies, but it'll get by just fine.

I'm riding a 650 pegaso at the moment which is a trallie, and while it's not the best handling bike for off or on road, it can do both reasonably and to be honest it's quite good fun, it's got a charm about it. Bikes like the Kawasaki KLRs, Suzuki's DRZs, the XT600/660 are all worth looking at if you're after a bike to do both, just don't expect miracles.

I wouldn't want a two stroke off road bike if it was going to spend a considerable amount of time on the road, most of the ones you'll be looking at will be too hardcore to be practical. They're more fun than a barrel of monkeys but they're race bikes and they want the servicing that goes with that.

 

[chronic86]

450/525cc KTM EXC

 

[Amp34]

Pardonthewait you've pretty much hit on the thing I'm most wondering, do I get an enduro and ride that around, knowing full well i'll probably do so few miles off road or go for a SM and have to upgrade at a later date to a second set of wheels... I've also been reading that generally SM are geared higher than the enduro versions, good for top speed (which i'm not that bothered about) but not for low down torque which would be a pain off road. Hmmm.

I just wonder with something like a 525 if i'm getting a bit large? There seem to be more about but I wonder if they will start becoming a bit too powerful for a first bike and a pain if the fall over off road?

 

[PardonTheWait]

Pardonthewait you've pretty much hit on the thing I'm most wondering, do I get an enduro and ride that around, knowing full well i'll probably do so few miles off road or go for a SM and have to upgrade at a later date to a second set of wheels... I've also been reading that generally SM are geared higher than the enduro versions, good for top speed (which i'm not that bothered about) but not for low down torque which would be a pain off road. Hmmm.

I just wonder with something like a 525 if i'm getting a bit large? There seem to be more about but I wonder if they will start becoming a bit too powerful for a first bike and a pain if the fall over off road?

Only problem with something like the KTM EXCs is that they are race bikes, so they're not mega user friendly, they'll be much less smooth to ride than a more mainstream bike. The EXCs are much less violent in their acceleration and so on than the SX equivalents, they have a heavier flywheel and longer gearing, so it's not exactly like riding an MX bike on the road.

Engine size and top speed and stuff won't be a problem, they're vastly slower in the top end than say a 600 sportsbike, and considerably lighter. They're very tall though and not even remotely comfortable. The seats are hard and thin with nothing to keep you in a particular place, they run right from the front of the bike to the rear fender so you can slide about on them in corners, which obviously you won't need to do on the road.

Only thing is really, they're not made for the road - they're road legal and you can ride them on the road, but it's not really what they're for.

I'd consider looking at something 'softer' if you want to spend a lot of time on the road. The off road side of things will suffer somewhat because it'll be heavier and so on, but it will behave much better day to day with much longer service intervals.

The DRZs are supposed to be more well behaved than the more hardcore bikes.

 

[i-bert]

Only problem with something like the KTM EXCs is that they are race bikes, so they're not mega user friendly, they'll be much less smooth to ride than a more mainstream bike. The EXCs are much less violent in their acceleration and so on than the SX equivalents, they have a heavier flywheel and longer gearing, so it's not exactly like riding an MX bike on the road.

Engine size and top speed and stuff won't be a problem, they're vastly slower in the top end than say a 600 sportsbike, and considerably lighter. They're very tall though and not even remotely comfortable. The seats are hard and thin with nothing to keep you in a particular place, they run right from the front of the bike to the rear fender so you can slide about on them in corners, which obviously you won't need to do on the road.

Only thing is really, they're not made for the road - they're road legal and you can ride them on the road, but it's not really what they're for.

I'd consider looking at something 'softer' if you want to spend a lot of time on the road. The off road side of things will suffer somewhat because it'll be heavier and so on, but it will behave much better day to day with much longer service intervals.

The DRZs are supposed to be more well behaved than the more hardcore bikes.

I agree with most of what you say, but the thing about these bikes is that you can customize them any way you want for what you need.

Most supermoto riders fit a step seat to keep them in place.

I loved my DRZ. It handled well for a heavy bike and it didn't need an oil and filter change after every trackday.

But I have another bike for the road and the DRZ was usually just sat there. I also needed the extra power for the track and it would have meant spending quite a lot on it to get it quicker. They are only about 35bhp I think.

I've got a 525 KTM now and its much quicker, but I do miss having a Supermoto for the road.

 

[PardonTheWait]

I agree with most of what you say, but the thing about these bikes is that you can customize them any way you want for what you need.

Most supermoto riders fit a step seat to keep them in place.

Absolutely, but the OP's saying he wants a bike as close to £2k as possible, which pretty much precludes bolting a load of aftermarket goodies to it.

 

[Amp34]

I doubt i'll be going on any long distance rides with it, it definately won't be a commuter machine so comfort I guess won't be a major issue, i'm also over 6' which will probably help on the size thing?

I think the DRZ is still the leader in the stakes though, what about the CCM 404e instead? Looking around it seems to be pretty good too, uses the DRZ E engine and I guess would come in around the same price.

With regards to customisation, yeah that will probably wait until I got used to the bike, as I mentione before I'm not to worried about top speed but I just don't want anything gutless as well.

I'll definately have a look at the DRZ as it appears it may be just the ticket. The only problem I have with it is that it looks such a heavy bike (if that makes sense), the other dirt/supermotos just look nicer.

There seem to be a load of Honda CRF's converted to SMs, what would they be like if I could find one at a reasonable price?

 

[i-bert]

I doubt i'll be going on any long distance rides with it, it definately won't be a commuter machine so comfort I guess won't be a major issue, i'm also over 6' which will probably help on the size thing?

I think the DRZ is still the leader in the stakes though, what about the CCM 404e instead? Looking around it seems to be pretty good too, uses the DRZ E engine and I guess would come in around the same price.

With regards to customisation, yeah that will probably wait until I got used to the bike, as I mentione before I'm not to worried about top speed but I just don't want anything gutless as well.

I'll definately have a look at the DRZ as it appears it may be just the ticket. The only problem I have with it is that it looks such a heavy bike (if that makes sense), the other dirt/supermotos just look nicer.

There seem to be a load of Honda CRF's converted to SMs, what would they be like if I could find one at a reasonable price?

There is a lad on here who owns one I think. Maybe he could give you some advice. I forgot his name though.

 

[valerian]

check out the mz baghira black panther, ive got a black one, it looks the nuts, and not stupid money, also it has a standard muther of a back tyre

 

[Smithy]

I'm going to throw DR350 in to the mix. The reason is because it was my first bike. I mainly used it on the road, taking it to the dirt at weekends or as often as I could. As with the newer DRZ, it's a little underpowered compared to other bikes in its range, but I found that confidence inspiring, especially off road. My first off road sessions were had on the 350 and looking back, there probably wasn't a better bike I could have learnt on (taking my road riding needs in to account). It was reliable for the most part, and when it wasn't, it was such an easy bike to work with. I also did my first 4-stroke top end rebuild on my 350.

It's also worth mentioning that I took the 350 to Wales for a weekend of off roading and it handled the welsh hills and valleys no problems. We were dragging it through woods, rivers, bogs and all sorts and it just kept on going, a proper reliable work horse. It won't let you down. I'm not sure if that can be said about the newer DRZ.