Apple vs Samsung, court orders Samsung to show Apple 5 new phones

Apple's argument about a fair fee comes from what they say the cost of the chip that supplies the tech is e.g. chip costs $5 to make so they shouldn't pay more.

IMHO, the cost of the technology involved is not stipulated by the cost of the finished product but in the cost of the research and development. Hell, if everything was costed not not include the R&D cost then everything would be much cheaper.

I doubt we will ever get to find out what Samsung are asking Apple to pay for the license but, again IMHO, Apple are using the FRAND argument to lower the cost down to buttons which is possibly why Samsung have told them to sod off.

FRAND should be used to force companies to license required technology but it should NOT be used by the people wanting the tech to bully the owner into licensing it for peanuts.
 
n111ck said:
What does it matter? The general consensus on here is that patents are pointless and fair game to be ripped off. :rolleyes:
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Oh looky, he's back.

Do you feel every patent in the trial ended in the correct result? Even the Pinch to Zoom one? Do you feel that Apple should be holding this back or even have the patent in the first place?


I also think you will find that some countries don't allow programming to be patented.... The UK for example.
 
n111ck said:
What does it matter? The general consensus on here is that patents are pointless and fair game to be ripped off. :rolleyes:
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Its actual a rather nice discussion, without any stupid blind following for the most part, and its quiet interesting to read, bar your blind following of apple, and lack of knowledge in most things.

Also wanted to add that told while I was cutting my hair, a Lady claimed she had a samsung iPhone and I quoet "This is the iPhone maybe by samsung, they make a better one then apple" she had a 3g/3gs not too sure, but her and another guy were discussing the matter for a good 5mins, till they finally removed the case and saw the Apple logo, the lady then went on to say "Oh **** I thought I got the samsung one, not the apple one." she seemed rather dissapointed. The whole thing just shows how little knowledge the generally public has on these matters, and how most of their buying is based on what their friends have or what the previced cool device is.
 
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Not really. How many people might say 'wheres your hoover' rather than 'wheres your vacuum cleaner'. Are they also so dumb they shouldn't be allowed out?

It's our area of expertise, so it seems amazingly stupid, but Apple have marketed so well, some people think all smartphones are iPhones...

Having said that, it's one thing to not know the difference, it's another to not know what you bought and what you have now.

"Oh, I thought I had a Toyota, but it's a Fiat". Granted, that is pretty damn stupid.

Fallen god said:
Its actual a rather nice discussion, without any stupid blind following for the most part, and its quiet interesting to read, bar your blind following of apple, and lack of knowledge in most things.
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This can be fixed with the use of your 'ignore list' :)
 
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Can anyone please explain in simple lay terms what the fuss about prior art is/ link me to an article which explains it in simple terms?
 
1mm3 said:
Can anyone please explain in simple lay terms what the fuss about prior art is/ link me to an article which explains it in simple terms?
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There isn't really a lays term, most article are one side or the other.
Basically if you can prove prior art you can get a patent overturn. However it's not as simple as that.
Androids uses pinch to zoom and other "patented" stuff but as it does it in a offerer way it doesn't infringe any patent.
Also at least in America, if the device was never released in America, the judge doesn't have to accept it asss evidence.

All in all it all adds up to complication. You can't take a patent at face value and neither can people deem if it violates or there's prior art. With out seeing the code and exactly how it does something.

The biggest peoblems with patents and related systems. Tney are meant to be reviewed before being accepted. This either doesn't happen or is done badly and no ones come up with a decent review system for patents.
Which then means once they are accepted, it requires expensive court cases to get them overturned and that requires you to prove they should not off been granted, which is not very sucsefull.

Although not related to your question. This article goes into the some details to show how things are sp complicated and how the media massively oversimplify stuff that changes opinions.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/30/3279628/apple-pinch-to-zoom-patent-myth
 
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stoosh said:
I'm just glad that in the UK we don't have a Micky Mouse court at least when it comes to technology and the Judges see past all the bull being feed by companies who are hell bent on destroying competition and want to operate with a monopoly.
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:confused:

Compared to eu system, where as long as design comunity patents have been granted, then basically all the judge can do, is check the paperwork is in order and rule based on that.
The uk/eu, is no better.
 
Glaucus said:
People just buying it early in case it's banned, expect sales to slump in a few weeks time.
Also people waiting for ip5 never been a great qaurter for sales.

Or do you really think people have gone and purchased an sgs3 just for moral support?
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I'm not to sure it is related to the case, apart from it being all over tech sites and such I doubt that most of the public know about it or even care, maybe the phone is just doing that good, I have started to see the S3 everywhere.
 
The phone is indeed doing extremely well and has been for sometime. It is after all seen as the best android out there and is basically the flagship model.

But nexus related it to the apple litigation, which I think is more or less rubbish. People don't spend hundreds and hundreds in moral support.
 
Not sure if the case has prompted an increase in S3 sales but I have noted that a few people have stated that, due to Apple's actions, they will no longer be buying Apple products where they have previously. I have yet to see someone state the opposite or state that they won't be buying another Samsung product due to it.


Note: granted I am talking about the minority of people here
 
Richie said:
Note: granted I am talking about the minority of people here
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Minority and stupid. I still don't get why people seem to think apple are special and started it all.
People seem totaly unaware of patent cases and that nokia then Motorola(and other android manuafctures, before being taken over) was the first to sue apple, than apple suing Motorola.

- Edit add a hTc subsidiary to that list of who sued first in the list as well.

But as main stream media only seem to report what apple has/does everyone seem to miss these points.

As I've said plenty of times, before it's business as normal. Decide based on teh functionality you need and which device fits those needs the most.

In the mean time Microsoft has been suing loads and winning royalties from android manufactures. A rumored $5 from ever hTc android device sold.
 
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Glaucus said:
People just buying it early in case it's banned, expect sales to slump in a few weeks time.
Also people waiting for ip5 never been a great qaurter for sales.

Or do you really think people have gone and purchased an sgs3 just for moral support?
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Not for moral support, that is just a stupid thing to say.......

Richie said:
Not sure if the case has prompted an increase in S3 sales but I have noted that a few people have stated that, due to Apple's actions, they will no longer be buying Apple products where they have previously. I have yet to see someone state the opposite or state that they won't be buying another Samsung product due to it.
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This.

Plus also maybe because people are finally realising that they are paying far too much for the iphones when ever there are far better products on the market i.e. the GS 3 for a cheaper price and it pretty much trumps right over the 4s, sooo many people (before the case even started) have moved from iphones to the GS 3 and they have loved the GS 3/android soooo much, way more than their iphone 4/4s. Even the majority of average joes will know about this case as it has been all over the news/newspapers, heck even the BBC had it on TV the other night as a major headline so Samsung are getting loads of advertising for free essentially and people will be curious about their products as to how they are copying the iphone (this includes your iphone users that aren't really aware of samsung/android and just how good their phones are) and thus people will look at them rather than just being a sheep and going to look only at the iphones and end up being more impressed with the GS 3 and buy it instead.

Even my friends who don't follow any of this stuff about apple, samsung etc. have been made aware of all that is happening due to the attention that it is getting and are now curious about Samsung's phones, and they own iphones too.


Short version, a lot of advertising, which is helping Samsung a lot.

EDIT:

You keep saying the same thing over and over again Glaucas about it being business and that they all do it, however, do HTC and Samsung etc. sue apple etc. just because their devices are rectangle with sharp corners, have icons that look similar, have pinch to zoom and other pitiful things, which they sue for? No. You can also keep saying that "oh, but the patent goes into a lot more detail than that and thus it isn't just what it says in the headlines", doesn't matter, still come to the same result in the end.
 
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Your last paragraph is spot on Nexus, I don't recall anyone attempting (and in some cases getting) bans on competitor products other than Apple. Especially for patents that are now being inspected by USPTO to check if they are valid due to new evidence of prior art.

Apple are incredibly aggressive in this area, meantime they are totally taking their eye off the ball. The next iphone, whatever they call it will not be a match for the S3/One X, It will still be lacking functionality and any new features we haven't seen before, we have already seen the OS and its a bit of a wet blanket isn't it ? new maps.. wooo! big deal. So they might add NFC and LTE, welcome to 12 months ago!

The hardware specs don't matter because its going to run iOS6 that a 4S can run, so its irrelevant if it has a 2Ghz quad core CPU and 4Gb of memory or whatever big spec you can think of - it only needs the processing power of a 4s.

If an ipad mini comes along no doubt the pro-apple press will lax lyrical about it... the 7" form factor is not new and the OS certainly wont be.. same, tired old junk.

The next iphone will sell millions, purely on the fact its called an iphone, however I think many people have already moved away and don't want to go back. The ones that are left will be the die-hards and the facebook generation who are, shall we say a bit slow on the uptake.
 
IMHO Glaucus, it is the manner in which Apple are going about it. Sure, other companies are suing but AFAIK, and I can be persuaded the other way if evidence is there, these other companies are mostly suing for actual technology that has been researched and developed as opposed to patenting a METHOD of use.

No other company has asked for bans on devices knowing full well that, by the time the case is heard, the products will be obsolete so it doesn't matter if Apple win or not as the damage to the other company has been don IF the ban is enforced.

You say that others started the litigation story yet it is only Apple that are getting a bad press. IMHO I think that has a lot to do with the product bans. No consumer likes to be told "no, you can't have it for the only reason being I don't want you to have it".

Banning products is high profile. You do this and you have to live with the potential fallout (people hating you) as well as the potential gains (competitor product banned).



TL;DR - It's what Apple have done differently with the litigation from everyone else that has annoyed people e.g. product bans, patents on methods of use of tech.


As I say, this is my opinion
 
The trouble with Apple is they are so great at marketing when people actually get hold of one of their products and compare it to something like the S3 they are left disappointed, especially as they pay a bigger premium for apple products.
Apple know this and are having to aggressively sue. The trouble now seems what they thought would give them positive press is actually back firing as the 'dumb' Apple users actually can now see how good the competition actually is and how poor their products actually are. There are now so many site explaining to your ordinary Joe what Apples 'marketing terms' actually mean people can see past them.
 
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