AR15, for when the Shotty just doesnt quite cut it..

Orionaut

Orionaut

Orionaut

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I guess this is one of the reasons why the AR15 is such a popular gun.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeowners-armed-son-fatally-shoots-burglars-oklahoma/

A Shotgun is seriously intimidating, as is a handgun, against a single assailant. But if you are confronted by three masked intruders a semi auto, low recoil, carbine is likely to be much more effective in practice.

Back to the story...

Since this is the USA and at least some states do things properly! ;) Oklahoma is a "Felony Murder" jurisdiction and the surviving criminal (Who, it would appear, was largely the Boss of the Gang, and therefore entirely responsible for the deaths of her somewhat younger partners) stands to face three counts of first degree felony Murder.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-teens...vasion-broken-arrow-oklahoma-driver-arrested/

A deal may of course be forthcoming, but as it stands pretty much her best outcome is dying in prison a very old woman in 50-60 years time, OTOH she might die somewhat sooner with a needle in her arm. (Pretty sure First degree felony Murder is potentially a capital offence in OK)

On another note, look at this rather fun site.... :p

http://www.ar15builder.com/

Its a bit like ordering a Car, Pick your favoured options and all that! :p
 
Orionaut said:
Pretty sure First degree felony Murder is potentially a capital offence in OK
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Their laws are funny - I think in this case it is pretty much in the hands of the next of kin of the deceased I believe in OK? so if they don't like her much they could press for the death penalty even though she was an accomplish to those people who died.

Orionaut said:
Its a bit like ordering a Car, Pick your favoured options and all that!
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Surprisingly its possible (I know/know of a couple of owners) in the UK to have reasonable justification to own an ar15 in 5.56mm modified for straight pull in the UK - well technically even full auto if you had reasonable justification but pretty much no one would even come close to justification for full auto.
 
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Unless that house was quite isolated an AR15 is a bit dodgy for home defence and quite a danger to any neighbours/bystanders if used. A semi-auto or pump action shotgun would be much more effective and could have done the same job in this instance.

While it is good the burglars got killed rather than being able to attack the son I don't think a murder charge for the driver (despite her clearly being a fat white-trash waste of DNA) is appropriate - but a couple of decades in jail for her part in an armed house breakin would be better.
 
Holst1981 said:
They were young and stupid but only the kid that shot them will know if they deserved to die or not.

Sad story.
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We were all young and stupid, but most of us didn't break into houses while armed with a knife and knuckle dusters. I'd rather no one died, but if you're breaking into someones house armed with a knife then you deserve it imo
 
dowie said:
If you break into someone's house carrying a knife and knuckledusters then you probably deserve to die.
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Eh. Depends on what their intention was. If the knife was there just to wave around and look scary and they had no intention of actually hurting anyone then that is completely different to someone who is going in there with the intention to kill.
 
I don't think it is relevant - it also isn't too plausible, if you threaten someone with a weapon you need to be prepared to use it - even someone who didn't intend anyone to get hurt could easily end up stabbing the homeowner if they end up in a fight with them.
 
Cromulent said:
Eh. Depends on what their intention was. If the knife was there just to wave around and look scary and they had no intention of actually hurting anyone then that is completely different to someone who is going in there with the intention to kill.
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If an offensive weapon is waved at you, you are fighting for your life. You have no idea what the opponent intends to do with it. If you wait, or hesitate you will most likely be dead.
 
englishpremier said:
If an offensive weapon is waved at you, you are fighting for your life. You have no idea what the opponent intends to do with it. If you wait, or hesitate you will most likely be dead.
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True. I guess if I were in that situation I'd use lethal force if that was the only option open to me. I still don't feel right about people killing each other though and I certainly disagree with capital punishment. I firmly believe that anyone is capable of murder. It doesn't matter who you are if you are put in the right circumstances I'm pretty sure anyone would kill.
 
We have an issue with gangs from the local town coming up to our neighbourhood to steal guns and cash from cars (people leave guns in unlocked cars around here :shrug: ) as part of their 'initiation'. We had a meeting with the local police chief and he said that we shouldn't confront them but if we feel we need to then we are free to shoot them and they'll sort everything out afterwards, and that we should just call the police first so that they can be on their way.

I can't believe anyone over here will break into someones house when they know that they more than likely have multiple guns and aren't afraid to use them
 
we were discussing this at work, both people who i was talking to about it have AR15's and multiple other fire arms. They both said they would have done the same no hesitation. But then again you'd have to be really stupid to break into someones house over there as 90% of people own guns and quite a shocking number are carrying all the time.
 
dowie said:
Unless that house was quite isolated an AR15 is a bit dodgy for home defence and quite a danger to any neighbours/bystanders if used. A semi-auto or pump action shotgun would be much more effective and could have done the same job in this instance.

While it is good the burglars got killed rather than being able to attack the son I don't think a murder charge for the driver (despite her clearly being a fat white-trash waste of DNA) is appropriate - but a couple of decades in jail for her part in an armed house breakin would be better.
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5.56 pentrates much less than handgun or buckshot because the bullet is so light. Its actually safer indoors.
 
Cromulent said:
Eh. Depends on what their intention was. If the knife was there just to wave around and look scary and they had no intention of actually hurting anyone then that is completely different to someone who is going in there with the intention to kill.
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Because the homeowner, clearly knows their intentions right?
 
Cromulent said:
Eh. Depends on what their intention was. If the knife was there just to wave around and look scary and they had no intention of actually hurting anyone then that is completely different to someone who is going in there with the intention to kill.
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I think that it's different (though not completely so) but I also think that the difference is irrelevant unless the people in the home were able to flawlessly read minds, i.e. the difference is irrelevant in the real world. If someone chooses to brandish a potentially deadly weapon at someone else, I am fine with the target interpreting that as a clear and meaningful declaration of intent to kill them and as an immediate threat to their life. I am also fine with classifying killing as reasonable force in those circumstances, as long as it is done immediately and as a single attack (i.e. not one attack that stops them being a threat and then another that kills them).

I also think that the type of gun matters a lot, as does the ammunition. There's plenty of combinations of those things that can easily pass through quite a lot of things and kill bystanders and that's not the right combination. Killing an intruder who's a threat to your life is one thing. Killing your neighbour or someone in the street by mistake at the same time is another thing entirely.
 
Angilion said:
I also think that the type of gun matters a lot, as does the ammunition. There's plenty of combinations of those things that can easily pass through quite a lot of things and kill bystanders and that's not the right combination. Killing an intruder who's a threat to your life is one thing. Killing your neighbour or someone in the street by mistake at the same time is another thing entirely.
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Sadly, I heard it's not that rare of a thing to happen and is pretty common, especially when a lot of their homes and buildings are made of wood and not brick. Few kids have been killed by random bullets.

It's why it's really silly to see people firing their guns in the air to celebrate things because them bullets they firing will come back down somewhere, because gravity. lol
 
Orionaut said:
Since this is the USA and at least some states do things properly! ;) Oklahoma is a "Felony Murder" jurisdiction and the surviving criminal (Who, it would appear, was largely the Boss of the Gang, and therefore entirely responsible for the deaths of her somewhat younger partners) stands to face three counts of first degree felony Murder.
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That seems retarded to me, no wonder their prisons are overflowing. No doubt she should be punished, but charged with 3 murders when she was just the driver? :confused:
 
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