Are Exams the Problem With the Education System

[bhavv]

Hahaha. I actually used to quite enjoy biology, but that's probably because it was one of my best sciences. Just out of interest, do you have a job now which involves biology?

lolno. I had zero motivation, I just studied what I could. Physics and Chemistry were too hard for me, and I failed A level maths so couldnt do computer science (A level calculations were beyond my simple ability of learning and remembering).

I actually would have been a lot better off with a simple IT degree or anything else computer related that didnt involve programming.

Physics and Maths were actually my favorite subjects up to GCSE level (ex-'swot'), but after that the calculations got too hard, and my 6th form made me choose between either biology or physics A levels as no one ever did Physics + Biology (students only ever picked chemistry + physics, or chemistry + biology at my school, I was willing to take all 3 and maths at AS level and then drop one).

Actually if my school had let me do all three sciences, I wouldnt have had to spend an extra year at A levels due to failing maths - I would have been able to scrape CDD grades in all three sciences.

 

[flibbage0]

For some reason I loose motivation this time of the year.

Really doesn't help considering exams are in January.

For some reason I don't like doing practice exam papers, it's like a fear I have.

 

[Jay794]

I used to hate exams,

I'd do really well in class all year, then it came to exam time and I'd get all D's lol
I much prefer presentations to exams, there's too much pressure with exams, and a lot of the time, the questions on exams is about stuff you haven't even learned.

Why don't teachers just teach you straight from the exam paper all year round

 

[drunkenmaster]

Bhavv, the problem with gcse's specifically these days is there isn't much learning and processing information.

One person is taught maths, taught very well and given a wide range of exercises to do of which many help them come up with their OWN methods to find the final answer, they end up being the same methods but that they test through trial and error is crucial.

ANother person is taught the bare minimum, the teacher gives them the SAME type of question over and over with slightly changed numbers, and they are taught this same way for every possible question on a test, which these days are severely limited.

Its kind of more like monkey see monkey do these days. It's not the learning itself, nor exactly the discipline, its teaching a mind to think critically, to go through information and be able to turn it into something else. Having one question the teacher knows will be on the exam banged into you over and over again till you can simply fill in the blanks and complete that question with an identical format but with different numbers, its paint by numbers, not intelligence.

This ignores the fact that besides being taught to pass exams for a subject rather than actually being taught the subject, the exams and actual things in them are easier.

Going through school from early around 12-18, and mid 90's to just into the 2000's I saw the SAME maths being taught, at 12, as at 16, and some of it again repeated(as in taught from new) at a-level, I saw categorical proof that stuff was being dumbed down, that bits that used to be taught early had been pushed back to gcse, then a-level and then when I finally went to uni to do a comp science degree I saw a really basic level of maths in the first year that was, embarrassingly low level stuff(part of maths modules, not programming modules).

Exams really can be useful, at some point teachers do need SOME goal posts and so do students, and it does let teachers know maybe where the class as a whole has a slight gap in understanding. Exams as done these days in a ridiculous number of situations are useless. Education used to be about learning with exams a simple tool to help everyone work out where they were, education is now about EXAMS with learning a simple inconvenience on the way to getting better pass rates.

 

[Jay794]

Exams might be ok at assessing large groups, but to actually learn and absorb information I learn by doing or simple talking to the teacher about a subject, I learned far more at uni (and remember more) than I did at school, simply because the Uni Lecturers were like,

Here's what I think, do you agree/disagree and why?

Where as at school its more like, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, THIS IS HOW IT HAPPENED, OK? GOOD!

 

[Gangster]

An exam is just there to see test your knowledge on the subject, if you understand the subject the exam is easy. People who complain about exams are often those who don't fully understand the topic(s), no offence and hence have no confidence when taking the exam - then blaming the exam isn't really useful... well it is because if you're saying that its made you realise you fully don't understand the topic inside out.

My opinion and motto of course. I used to feel the same, the way to get over it is to study hard learn it inside out and exams are a breeze.

Oh, and I have uni exams in January so I'm in the exam boat, and hate revision over Christmas but its got to be done!

 

[Jay794]

if you understand the subject the exam is easy. People who complain about exams are often those who don't fully understand the topic

Thats a complete lie, some of the most intelligent people at my school did really badly in exams, even though when being taught the subject they knew it all. Pressure just overcame them, I hate exams because I just get a mind-block

 

[godinman]

No, crap teachers, a lack of discipline and disruptive (chav) kids are the problem. Oh, and government involvment in the education system, always tinkering and cocking it up. Ever read the Harry Potter books? See what happens when the ministry gets involved in the school?

 

[LucidLogix®]

Exams are worthless.

Im in my first year at university and lectures and exams to me have both been absolutely pointless. The sad thing is, i've already sat there a few nights and thought 'why am I here?'.

I could read books myself, I could look things up myself and work on projects myself. Then the answer to my question was 'the environment you're in with other people, other people who are there to help you and assist you, mainly, other students'. That is the only academic benefit to me being in university. Obviously you want the degree at the end, the piece of paper that says you're a fairly clever person.

I have learnt almost everything from projects and assignments I've been set and where I have been over my mates or he's been at mine and we've worked in a group on it and got it done that way.

I just think, for a computer science degree, as well as some others, it should be 100% in the computer room, 100% project based. Fortunately for me, my 2nd year and 3rd year is assessed on project permitting I get there.

With other degrees though, it would be hard to assess them in another way. I guess it could be all coursework such as dissertation writing etc which would probably be better as you actually have to research and think. I still see so many people at University just revising and regurgitating information which is a mockery of the education system.

There should be no exams. Maybe as 20% of a module or something but not as 100%. Its just plain stupid.

 

[Jay794]

Who needs exams? we all have an internet connection, if you don't know something you Google it, hardly need exams at all these days

 

[Lunawolfy]

So many good points in this thread it was too hard to post with a quote!

At school I just felt like an exam number (071107888) and it felt like the only reason I was there was to slowly weed away the dregs of humanity so that in it's final year it kinda felt like learning. Take the day I lost all faith in mathematics, talking about differentiation:

Me: Ms, what do we use this for?

Her: For differentiating and integrating.

Me: Yes, but what does it do?

Her: (some babel about straight-line equations or something)

Me: But what do I need it for?

*after about 2 minutes of silence*

Her: The exam, this will only ever be a useful thing to learn for this one exam, and those who actually need it will learn it properly under the correct conditions.

Teaching to pass exams is useless, as it is not an understanding of materials, but merely a way to spew out rote learning. Someone with a fast memory could pass all their exams with zero depth of knowledge, but just knowing what formulae to use, and what numbers to put in.

You could even train a monkey to do it.

 

[LucidLogix®]

They are a good indication of being able to work under pressure if nothing else

Oh, and I wouldn't call maths a "medium-low degree", yet my course is mostly exams

No, not at all.

Exams show one thing, a persons ability to regurgitate information.

Projects/Assignments are a better indication of working under pressure, time management, structure of work, willingness to research new things in relation, organisation and dedication to their study.

With projects, you get some people who will leave it right until the end and in 90% of cases it shows because the work is of substandard quality.

On a recent project I had to do in university, me and a few mates started it about 4 days after we were given it. It was a 1 month long programming project. We managed our time well and finished early, with perfect amount of time to check through it and polish it up. Thats what will be expected in a research or working environment. We had a number of things to do on a checklist which we had to include. I did 9 out of 10 as the last one was something we hadn't been taught yet, automation. I did try to look it up, didn't understand it completely so never included it because you get marked down if your program crashes. So its better to have a fully functioning program with less features than one with more features that crashes, as I'm sure you're aware.

Loads of people left it to the last week and then panicked and got about 4 things done and I thought I had done bad, some of whom are better at programming than me, but I did better purely on the basis that I managed my time better. I also added extra bit of code I'd found to touch it up, make it better which shows I researched and took time to look at new things in the API.

Some people just don't care. Exams don't prepare people for the real world. Having worked in the sector i've seen some people who just like being spoon fed because thats how the education system makes them. Its ridiculous.

Everything should be assessed on project work. A set criteria should be given and as long as you meet that criteria you should get the mark.

Lets say a program that needs to have;

• a menu
• user input
• saving to a file
• reading in from a file
• arrays
• use of graphics

etc

You should be able to make any program on anything that meets that criteria. One, it gives the student the opportunity to be creative in what they do. Two, it allows them to look up different ways of doing things rather than being spoon fed certain code to carry it out.

Fair enough if you think exams are a good indication. I honestly think they're the worst method of assessment.

 

[Jay794]

Algebra - Never used it since school, so why did I waste time failing it at school? I've never needed it and I could have probably filled my brain with some other, perhaps more useful

Regarding projects etc....

I used to love doing presentations because I could really show off my computer skills, my presentations were always uber flashy lol. What I did hate was the foreign students (hear me out first) they turned up to our group meetings, sat there and offered no contribution to the project, then we basically had to write a script for them to read on the presentation day.

SOOOO ANNOYING!

I think we got extra marks for having them in our group though

 

[iraiguana]

Actually she was wrong... so so wrong. If you are as clever as you make out, you may want to go on and do advanced maths, physics or chemistry and you will then realise what these equations are used for. They are basic skills same as wood work for handling mathematical problems and simulations. You may not realise it, but the simplified concepts they are teaching you are giving skills so you then can understand how to use the advanced material later on.

If you have no wish to extend your knowledge then fair enough, just do it to get the qualifications as these are key in this world to getting into better schools, universities and finally the top jobs. You must see this is true for yourself and that yes the exam is no longer a test of your ability, but of your will to get the best opportunities later on... how badly do you want to do well in life? Is it worth a couple of days extra hard work or would you rather be posting here or playing games instead?

 

[LucidLogix®]

Teaching to pass exams is useless, as it is not an understanding of materials, but merely a way to spew out rote learning. Someone with a fast memory could pass all their exams with zero depth of knowledge, but just knowing what formulae to use, and what numbers to put in.

You could even train a monkey to do it.

Fully agree. This is why secondary school, in my opinion should go from 12-17, one year of a project on your chosen topic which gets assessed, if its good enough you can do a degree to specialise in that subject, So you finish uni at 21.

At 12, you should be able to tell the teacher what you want to specialise in. First 3 years of secondary school you do the basics such as science, english, IT and science. Final 2 years you get split up and mixed with other schools in your area is a possibility, then all those who want to specialise in computing go to one school for their final 2 years and so forth. Not exactly hard to set up to be honest, it would take more time and money but in theory, is it any different to college?

Then after those final 2 years in school, you do a thesis at 17. Nothing too much, just enough to show you have a basic understanding and an interest in your subject. If the university then thinks its good enough as it gets attached with your UCAS Personal Statement then you can go to university.

Even BTECs and A Levels are ridiculous. I was ill throughout a third of my BTEC and still got into a highly reputable university for my subject and for it, its flying up the university league tables and now has links to IBM, Google, Cisco, etc.

My best mate from school, his attendance was 21% during his A Levels and he got A's or above in every subject.

 

[LucidLogix®]

Regarding the first part... you do read for a degree!

You read for a degree, aye, but its only useful if its for a project that you need to really grasp a deep understanding to apply it to a real world practical solution.

i.e. look up something, apply it to your program you are currently working on.

For exams, you do have to read up but loads of people read before the exam and then its gone again because they haven't gone through the application process. Most people learn by doing hence the popularity of BTEC's and vocational courses increasing.

Everything should be thesis based. Everything should be 100% research, not spoon fed information and exams. Even with some projects at university you feel restricted because the criteria stops you from expanding your mind and taking it to the next level. Its ridiculous. Is it any wonder, people like Zuckerberg, people like Steve Jobs dropped out? University sometimes and school, limits people in what they can actually do.

 

[d_brennen]

tl;dr

But yes, Exams are a problem with the education system. The idea that you can grasp a student's grasp on a subject they've studied for two years based on an hour or two in a poorly heated exam hall, in silence, with no external materials is crazy and holds no relevance to any real world situation.

The Court forbids me grasping students

 

[Stewy]

I prefer exams to coursework. Much, much prefer them. Dissertation... do not want

 

[HangTime]

I simply cannot wait to get out of it and get a job- something I have control over and can take a little pride in. Where I would be judged by my actions and how well I handle a situation

Unfortunately that is a somewhat naive view of what the world of employment is like:

-In some jobs you won't have much control, you will be expected to do what you are told even if you think it is wrong.
-Pride in your work can be diminished if you are doing things you don't agree with, or nobody really cares about.
-Workplace politics mean that you won't always be judged on your actions.
-People you work with may have differing views on the best way to handle a situation.

The beauty of schooling/examinations, is that at least you know where the goalposts are in terms of what you need to achieve, regardless of whether you think it is a worthwhile excercise or not.
At school, being hard-working and talented at the tasks in hand will bring success.
At work, it may not.

 

[Demoniser]

I do think that exams can be a problem in some cases and they can be quite misleading.

Certainly in some subjects rather than others (creative subjects/disciplines especially) you could take an exam to benchmark your progress. However said exam might be marked based upon a specific set of criteria so that youi gain the qualification. That criteria may not be the same as the standards you'd be judged by in reality. Becauase of this, people can be left with the false impression that they're very capable when in fact their education and practical ability are lacking for any work in the real world.

Exams have their place but i think in the UK especially we rely to much quantifying progress and ability based upon a numbers and grades. It's almost an addiction in some cases.

There was a program on the bbc recently (or could have been channel 4) where an education expert spent time at a school. He experimented with changing the way things are done such as teaching and marking. They found that the students were almost obsessed with wanting to know thier grades to benchmark their performance even if doing it another way was better.

What exams provide and in a broader sense..qualifications is a set of clear markers to judge ability in an area. But as i've mentioned this isn't always accurate.