Are split routines neccessary?
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Soldato
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Haven't had the time to read all that, just had a very quick scan. He just seems to contradict himself.
He completely slates routines like the push/ pull/ legs then says doing different compound lifts on different days is ok. I'll try and make myself a bit clearer...
He slates P/P/L which is typically:
Push:
Bench Press/ Military Press/ Dips
Pull:
Deadlifts/ Pull-Ups/ Rows
Legs:
Squats/ Leg Press/ SLDL's/ Calf Raises
So that's different compound lifts on different days... erm...
Am I missing something here or does he actually come with some amazing logic further into his amazing discovery that none of us know what we are doing
He completely slates routines like the push/ pull/ legs then says doing different compound lifts on different days is ok. I'll try and make myself a bit clearer...
He slates P/P/L which is typically:
Push:
Bench Press/ Military Press/ Dips
Pull:
Deadlifts/ Pull-Ups/ Rows
Legs:
Squats/ Leg Press/ SLDL's/ Calf Raises
So that's different compound lifts on different days... erm...
Am I missing something here or does he actually come with some amazing logic further into his amazing discovery that none of us know what we are doing
Soldato
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Yeah but full body workouts are also a split. You split the loads up over the week. At the end of the week you've still done the same amount of squats/ deadlifts/ presses/ etc, etc... Just dressing it up differently and adding a bit of variety.Hedge said:
I'm not against full body workouts, one of my favourite ways to train is the HST program which is exactly that. It's no amazing new discovery that renders hitting muscle groups on certain days as absolete and a waste of time.
Chong Warrior said:Haven't had the time to read all that, just had a very quick scan. He just seems to contradict himself.
He completely slates routines like the push/ pull/ legs then says doing different compound lifts on different days is ok. I'll try and make myself a bit clearer...
He slates P/P/L which is typically:
Push:
Bench Press/ Military Press/ Dips
Pull:
Deadlifts/ Pull-Ups/ Rows
Legs:
Squats/ Leg Press/ SLDL's/ Calf Raises
So that's different compound lifts on different days... erm...
Am I missing something here or does he actually come with some amazing logic further into his amazing discovery that none of us know what we are doing
"First, I shall clarify what I mean by ‘split’ routine. As most of us are probably aware, the conventional use of the phrase split routine comes from bodybuilding; it refers to structuring ones training routine around the individual body parts/muscle groups. One example: Working chest, shoulders, and triceps one day, back and biceps the next, and legs the third day. Another, even worse (and you‘ll understand why by the end of the article), example: Legs one day, back one day, chest one day, shoulders one day, and arms one day. As I said, these are conventional examples of split routines, the type of things you would invariably find in what have been referred to as the “muscle comics” -- because what you find inside these ‘comics’ is so far-fetched and ridiculous, it has absolutely no resemblance to reality!
Another, more practical, type of split routine, would be to split the lifts -- take a handful of the big, compound, multi-joint exercises and work two or three each time you train. As you will soon see, this type of split can be very effective. For example: squats, pull-ups, and overhead presses one day, deadlifts and bench press another day, and maybe snatches and cleans-and-jerks on another day. It should be obvious, I hope, that the type of split routine that I have a problem with is the former, body part type. "
Lots of strength coaches agree with him, so it's not like that point of view is against everyone elses.
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Duradrum said:
There's been thousands of routines published over the years, the majority with much better physiques than Bill Starr but people are still doing his routine 30 years after the book was published which says a lot.
I won't bother asking you to guess what routine I'm doing
Soldato
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You completely missed my point. I'll spell it out for youDepth said:
"There's no difference between the two"
Look at my post that you quoted, can you see how they're all compound lifts on different days? That's a P/P/L routine, one that he's saying is crap. What's the difference? I'm not saying he's wrong, he just seems to be trying to claim he's telling me something new... he's not. I'm doing both what he's saying we should be doing AND what we shouldn't. How can that work?
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Soldato
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I've seen a few routines were you can do something like:PAz said:
15x80, 12x100, 10x120, 8x130, 20x85
I'm thinking of giving it a try myself, that last set is supposed to be brutal. Is that what you mean PAz? or are you just hardcore and doing 3-4 sets of 20??
Chong Warrior said:I've seen a few routines were you can do something like:
15x80, 12x100, 10x120, 8x130, 20x85
I'm thinking of giving it a try myself, that last set is supposed to be brutal. Is that what you mean PAz? or are you just hardcore and doing 3-4 sets of 20??
Nah, it's just one set of 20 breathing squats. Ie you finish no matter what. Sometimes you need to take a dozen sucks of air to complete the last couple of reps.
http://www.cyberpump.com/preview/sean010.html
) then you won't be able to train the same muscle the next day / training session. 
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PAz said:Like oddjob said its just one set of 20. You start off with your 10 rep weight and just make sure you push 20 reps out. Good fun
Are you doing the routine from the supersquats book? I know there's a 20 rep squat routine in KTP by John McCallum but have't seen Strossen's in print.
He is just advocating dropping a split routine built up of lots of isolation work in favour of a mostly compound lift based routine.Whilst a good read it is old news really.
Beginners to lifting would do well to read it...seasoned lifters already know what works for them.
Beginners to lifting would do well to read it...seasoned lifters already know what works for them.
Depth said:
I cannot believe that people will still read these articles and believe every word they read. Search the net and you find thousands and thousands of articles not disimilar to this one. Research on the article and 9 times out of 10 you'll find the article written by an employee of a firm or affiliate and essentially all that's being done is advertising for a product OR my personal favorite, a routine that needs to be purchased. You need to be careful about what you read, and moreso what you believe.
It's getting harder and harder to find decent facts, from honest people. Some of the people on here are very clued up, offering friendly GOOD advice, but it seems much of it is going to waste becuase of what someone has read elsewhere going against the advice.
My advice, which I believe is the absolute best that can be given and is simply not up for debate: Try a variety of different methods of working out, and stick with what works best for YOU. There is no set path to sucess, simply a start and a finish. What comes in between these two points is your own personal journey.