Are we in the wrong ?

EffBee said:
Had to laugh at this - the client is wanting leaflets to further some purpose of his own. The phone number is a MINOR detail?
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The phone number has already been provided to them - correctly. Presumably the proof process is for the client to check they are happy with design elements such as the layout, colours, print quality etc.

They shouldn't need to check things like a telephone number they've ALREADY provided in correct form - thats for the printers in house quality assurance processes.
 
EffBee said:
This is a pure business decision.

If there is the probability of lots of repeat business or the client has a lot of local influence take the hit.

If you want to keep the client try to arrange a 50/50 or do it for cost.

If the client is small fry and you can afford to lose the account and get a bit of bad publicity locally play hardball. You are probably legally in the right.
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Best advice there mate, probably his fault that he accepted the proof, but as it was your company that made the error initially it may be worth accepting this too in order to keep his business.
 
[TW]Fox;11974515 said:
The phone number has already been provided to them - correctly. Presumably the proof process is for the client to check they are happy with design elements such as the layout, colours, print quality etc.

They shouldn't need to check things like a telephone number they've ALREADY provided in correct form - thats for the printers in house quality assurance processes.
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Oh dear. It's to check what's going to be printed, before it's printed. It's quite a simple system. I don't think proofing something means you can look at some elements of it and ignore others by 'presuming' they are correct.
 
TriedandTested said:
Oh dear. It's to check what's going to be printed, before it's printed. It's quite a simple system. I don't think proofing something means you can look at some elements of it and ignore others by 'presuming' they are correct.
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What reason would a client have to suspect a 'professional' printing company was unable to even get pre-provided details correct? There has to be some sort of level of assumed competency - you dont need the client to check the telephone number is correct, the number has already been provided and any errors with it should be picked up by the printers INTERNAL quality assurance.

The fact the client didn't notice the printers cockup is, IMHO, not particularly relevant. It was the printers mistake, pure and simple.
 
TriedandTested said:
Proofing by the client is to check it is exactly what they want before it goes to print. It covers content and design.
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Its harsh, but I think the client is entitled to expect that the information they provided has been included. If it were me I would examine the proof primarily to make sure I liked the look and feel of the leaflet (I'd also certainly check all of the details, but that's just me!)

That is, relying on the proof to get yourselves out of it is unfair, I think. Maybe you can reach an accommodation, i.e. do the correct set for 50%? That way you both absorb a hit, as you both contributed? That said, you might have to take the loss in its entirety.
 
exactly as this theard has shown, there are two ways to look at this and i cant decide on the best way to proceed.

50/50 seems fair, and yes he is a good client and i want to try to keep him happy but 40,000 + is not cheap and not something we can afford to swallow lightly.

technically we are in the right as he had to approve a proof, but the question isnt just one of who is technially right, as morally i want to do the right thing.
 
[TW]Fox;11974515 said:
The phone number has already been provided to them - correctly. Presumably the proof process is for the client to check they are happy with design elements such as the layout, colours, print quality etc.

They shouldn't need to check things like a telephone number they've ALREADY provided in correct form - thats for the printers in house quality assurance processes.
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No it is to check everything. Every single little knit picking detail. Otherwise you are effectively entrusting YOUR business to someone else's competence.
 
EffBee said:
No it is to check everything. Every single little knit picking detail. Otherwise you are effectively entrusting YOUR business to someone else's competence.
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Thats what you pay for.

The client asked for a product - and provided initial details required for the production of this product.

The end product is NOT what was requested - this is the printers issue.
 
Paulus said:
exactly as this theard has shown, there are two ways to look at this and i cant decide on the best way to proceed.

50/50 seems fair, and yes he is a good client and i want to try to keep him happy but 40,000 + is not cheap and not something we can afford to swallow lightly.

technically we are in the right as he had to approve a proof, but the question isnt just one of who is technially right, as morally i want to do the right thing.
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Business is sometimes hard and bloody and not nice.
 
That's irrelevant. The process of proofing is to prevent things like this happening. At that point the mistake should have been pointed out, amended, then another proof copy should have been provided with the corrections, okayed by the client and THEN sent to print.
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Yep,the client is at fault here,however what action you take depends on how important the client is to you.
Sometimes it is worth stomaching the loss to keep the client happy,sometimes it is not.
That is the real decision you have to make.

The reality is,wether you are right or wrong,if you do'nt come to some amicable arrangement,then you might be kissing goodbye to this client for good.

Think about other options such as splitting the cost of the reprint.ie you could tell them that they are responsible for the error,but you could agree to reprint it for cost,as a goodwill gesture.
 
why not tell us quantity, numbers and cost, as that goes a long way. If its a £50,000 order, covering half each would be fair as both sides made mistakes. IF its a £200 printing job, ffs, just reprint them, its called word of mouth and good business. If its £200, you run the company, its the 3rd job and you can't afford £200 it might be different again.

Theres lots of reasons to absorb costs to get good referral work after, but it all depends on the situation and cost and what you can cover.

Frankly, tell him its a error on both sides, redo it for free but use economy settings and cheaper paper/ink to save cash.
 
EffBee said:
...This is what we are printing. This is your last chance to check it is correct. Any mistakes you miss from now are your responsibility.
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Have to agree with the above. Im my eyes this is the whole point of the proofing process. That being said if I was a customer and I had missed something on the proof I would try my very best to blame it on Printing company so I didn't have to pay for a rerun.
 
Lets look at the mistakes made by both parties:

Client mistakes:

a) Trusting the printers to type pre-given information accurately
b) Not noticing a mistake made by the printers the proof

Printers mistakes:

a) Incorrectly typing the original, correctly supplied details
b) Not noticing the mistake made by THEMSELVES on the proof.

It's clear that although there is blame on both parties, the majority of the blame lies with the printer.

What you are basically trying to say is 'We cocked it up, we couldnt type the information you gave us accurately but hey you didnt notice so its your problem now'. This is, IMHO, unacceptable.
 
he paid your company to produce something for him, he gave you the correct details and you messed up,

Do the right thing and reprint them free of charge
 
[TW]Fox;11974545 said:
Thats what you pay for.

The client asked for a product - and provided initial details required for the production of this product.

The end product is NOT what was requested - this is the printers issue.
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You just don't get the real world do you. The initial email with the initial details just kicked off the process which ends with the finished leaflets. The key milestone is both parties agreeing exactly what will be produced via the proof. There is no guarantee the initial email was right. Once agreement has been reached one party cannot say oops, I made a mistake and missed that error - it is YOUR fault.

What was requested was what was signed off at proof.
 
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