Are we tackling cycle lanes wrong?

SexyGreyFox said:
I was on a coach in Bruge and the driver was following several cyclists down a road when one British passenger said something like "Just pass the scum, if they get knocked off it's their fault" and the driver went mad with the blokes attitude.
They have a different mentality to us over here.
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Whilst *some* cyclists sometimes irritate me a little either by deciding the laws of the road do not matter to them or think it is perfectly ok to sometimes ride 3 abreast in long rows like they are doing the tour de France whilst holding up lanes of traffic, I think you are painting a fake picture if you think even a significant minority would say, or even think like that - other than in a complete tongue and cheek comment to a friend (and without the term scum)

that person was clearly a grade A ****** regardless of the country he was in.

it isnt just car drivers either. I know many pedestrians who are angry at cyclists, car drivers angry at cyclists and motor cyclists and cyclist/motorcyclists angry at car drivers and pedestrians.

the top and bottom of it is our roads are crap, not fit for purpose with too many people on and we have rubbish &/or extortionate public transport - outside maybe of big cities like london and manchester etc........In the short term it will get worse as they build more houses and dont improve the roads. I still think in the medium - long term it will sort itself out as i believe human driven cars will start to be phased out in certain areas next decade (1st in cities as we get more pedestrian areas with driverless cars/busses you can hop on and off and then spreading out)
 
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If anyone wants to see what the dregs of society think about cyclists go on the DM comments for this article. Illuminating.


A Daily Mail Classic

The fact that the DM have a story about a ticket for passing a cyclist too closely should tell you how divisive the topic is and how much vitriol towards cyclists there is from some sections of society.
 
fez said:
I would wager its even less than 25%. I see probably 90% men and 10% women when I am out on leisure rides and quite often those 10% are part of larger groups, perhaps because they feel safer in them.

My partner is absolutely petrified of the road. To the point where even a 200m section between off road trails scares the crap out of her. Its an irrational fear but only insofar as its overblown. Obviously the risk is always there.
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I doubt I see more then a couple of women out on a road bike going for a ride for fitness (rather then commute or leisure) per hour at the weekends. Would see dozens of men out. However at RideLondon with closed roads it was more like 1 in 4.


fez said:
If anyone wants to see what the dregs of society [irrelevant words removed] go on the DM comments
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:D
 
fez said:
If anyone wants to see what the dregs of society think about cyclists go on the DM comments for this article. Illuminating.


A Daily Mail Classic

The fact that the DM have a story about a ticket for passing a cyclist too closely should tell you how divisive the topic is and how much vitriol towards cyclists there is from some sections of society.
Click to expand...
I havent read it and dont want to... its not that i dont believe you it is just that, I cant accept that the dregs which post vile on the DM comments (i used to read then and just got angry at them all the time) are in any way a reflection of our society.... IF they are then god help us all regardless of how you get around.
edit mind you i have seen some doozies on this forum as well (not in this thread) around the pandemic and the vaccine.....
 
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In Spain cycling 2 abreast is perfectly fine and legal. If however you are holding up traffic on a busy road you must drop into single file, same if there isn't enough visibility for oncoming cars to see you perhaps due to a tight bend or similar.

Additionally large groups of cyclists must break up into smaller groups leaving enough space in between groups for vehicles to overtake.

Motorists are supposed to be no closer than 5m behind the cyclists and leave no less than 1.5m when overtaking.

In some narrow city streets, the drawn out out cycle area on the road is in the middle of the road. This is on purpose to so motorists don't try to overtake cyclists in narrow areas.

It seems to work well but of course you do get those that disregard the rules on both sides.

Now cycle lanes in Spain are something else. And thought the UK has some of the worst.
 
2 abreast is legal in the uk too..... I wish some cyclists were as diligent as the Spanish however in terms of dropping to single file. I am not certain, am sure one of the bikers here will correct me if not, but i dont think 3 is.

I have heard some say it is to make sure drivers give plenty of clearance when they do overtake but that does not grok with me.... if a driver is going to be too close, they will STILL be too close to the ouside rider.

all it does is force a car driver who DOES want to give the bikes some space, even more over to the right, OR make it even harder to over take. it may have changed but iirc you are meant to give a single cyclist a similar berth as that of a car if you go past. I try to do that either way, but this is not possible if there are 2 of them..... (unless you give 2 bikes the same space as 1, which IS then dangerous)
 
bigmike20vt said:
that person was clearly a grade A ****** regardless of the country he was in.
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What the guy didn't realise was about 100 yards further the cyclists tuned onto an amazing network of cycle lanes.
I think we were somewhere near The Somme and the driver took us to a restaurant (like they all do to get theirs for free) and he gave us all a warning that if we walked out to the pavement we must not walk on the cycle lane. it was a big no no.

fez said:
If anyone wants to see what the dregs of society think about cyclists go on the DM comments for this article. Illuminating.


A Daily Mail Classic

The fact that the DM have a story about a ticket for passing a cyclist too closely should tell you how divisive the topic is and how much vitriol towards cyclists there is from some sections of society.
Click to expand...

Just sign up to Road CC on Facebook for the motorist anger, I've never seen so many people defend criminal drivers even when drivers have admitted their offence.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I have heard some say it is to make sure drivers give plenty of clearance when they do overtake but that does not grok with me.... if a driver is going to be too close, they will STILL be too close to the ouside rider.
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The basic thinking as far as I know is that if there are 2 of you next to each other the overtake will be quicker in general because instead of overtaking 2 bikes spread over 5+m of road you are overtaking 2 bikes taking up 2m of road. The overtake will be over quicker. Additionally, if you are giving a single cyclist 1.5m of space when you overtake then you should have some of your car in the other lane anyway so you can't overtake unless that lane is clear. If that lane is clear you can be entirely in that lane. If you have 2 cyclists next to each other you will still have plenty of space if you go completely into that lane.

The most dangerous overtakes for me are almost never on country roads which are narrow, they are on wider roads where the car can squeeze past as long as they only give you 50-100cm of space. Thats why you are supposed to take up primary position at times (centre of the road) to prevent drivers from feeling they can squeeze past. I'm sure plenty of drivers don't intend to come as close as they do but by the time they are coming past the road has narrowed a bit or the cyclist has moved out slightly to avoid something.

bigmike20vt said:
all it does is force a car driver who DOES want to give the bikes some space, even more over to the right, OR make it even harder to over take. it may have changed but iirc you are meant to give a single cyclist a similar berth as that of a car if you go past. I try to do that either way, but this is not possible if there are 2 of them..... (unless you give 2 bikes the same space as 1, which IS then dangerous)
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As explained above, the worst thing to overtake is a string of cyclists in single file because chances are good that they are going quite fast and you have to overtake potentially 100m worth of cyclists and come back in before another car comes. Something that would be almost impossible to do safely on many roads.

When I am out with my mate we cycle 2 abreast until a car comes and then we tuck in to allow them past usually. Depends on the situation.
 
bigmike20vt said:
all it does is force a car driver who DOES want to give the bikes some space, even more over to the right, OR make it even harder to over take. it may have changed but iirc you are meant to give a single cyclist a similar berth as that of a car if you go past. I try to do that either way, but this is not possible if there are 2 of them..... (unless you give 2 bikes the same space as 1, which IS then dangerous)
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If you're overtaking a car at 60mph on an A road you will do it so I can't see what the problem is overtaking two cyclists riding abreast going half the speed or even less.
I'm on the road and I want to overtake a car doing 50mph so I'll wait and then do it but it's as though some people come up against cyclists and all their driving goes out of the window

OR

are these drivers trying to overtake cyclists where they would never overtake a car?
 
SexyGreyFox said:
are these drivers trying to overtake cyclists where they would never overtake a car?
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I reckon that when I do a 2 hour ride on mainly country roads I am overtaken 5+ times at points where the driver is basically gambling on no one coming in the other direction at any speed.

They give me plenty of space and if a car came around the corner at the wrong moment I would likely be fine as they are past me but I'm amazed how many chances people take to save 20s. I don't think some drivers can process the fact that they are overtaking a cyclist at 20mph but there could be someone coming from the other direction at 50mph+ and they are only doing 30mph so that overtake which takes 5s needs far more open and safe road to complete.
 
fez said:
If anyone wants to see what the dregs of society think about cyclists go on the DM comments for this article. Illuminating.


A Daily Mail Classic

The fact that the DM have a story about a ticket for passing a cyclist too closely should tell you how divisive the topic is and how much vitriol towards cyclists there is from some sections of society.
Click to expand...
I saw one comment saying you can't tell how far away the car was lol

I'm pretty sure where a shadow starts from doesn't lie no matter the angle of the sun
 
Bad cycle networks are honestly massively detrimental to cyclists. Just adds another ******** excuse for the dregs of society to point and say "why aren't you on the cycle path" after they nearly kill you on the roads. Any article vaguely related to cyclists will bring out the usual idiots and this is just ammunition for them.
 
fez said:
Bad cycle networks are honestly massively detrimental to cyclists. Just adds another ******** excuse for the dregs of society to point and say "why aren't you on the cycle path" after they nearly kill you on the roads. Any article vaguely related to cyclists will bring out the usual idiots and this is just ammunition for them.
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I might have said above but on the road approaching the hospital it's downhill and I can reach 33 to 35 mph breaking the law but I still have drivers up my arse.
A little later in the day somebody asked why I wasn't riding on the excellent cycle lanes either side (so must have been one of the tailgaters) and I said :
1) I'm riding at 33mph, the law says I can't do more than 15mph.
2) Cycling on that cycle lane at 10mph will damage my bike because at every tree the lane is sticking up because of tree roots and there are trees every 20 foot.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
I might have said above but on the road approaching the hospital it's downhill and I can reach 33 to 35 mph breaking the law but I still have drivers up my arse.
A little later in the day somebody asked why I wasn't riding on the excellent cycle lanes either side (so must have been one of the tailgaters) and I said :
1) I'm riding at 33mph, the law says I can't do more than 15mph.
2) Cycling on that cycle lane at 10mph will damage my bike because at every tree the lane is sticking up because of tree roots and there are trees every 20 foot.
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Harpfield Rd? I swear I got a good three foot of air off one of those roots once. :D
 
Malevolence said:
Harpfield Rd? I swear I got a good three foot of air off one of those roots once. :D
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Harpfield is bad but I'm on about going from the little roundabout going down Hilton Road to the A&E, I can reach 33mph down there but if I went on the excellent cycle lane I'd break my bikes.

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I also don't trust people to stop on the side 'roads', in 2016 a Nurse drove straight out of Harplands throwing me up in the air and me landing heavily on Hilton Road.
This was witnessed by 6x Paramedics and 2x Coppers having a break outside the WMAS (when it was still there).
They wouldn't let me up for 25 minutes because they thought I was seriously injured (they don't see accidents happen) but I had 3 broken ribs and a dislocated right arm.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
Harpfield is bad but I'm on about going from the little roundabout going down Hilton Road to the A&E, I can reach 33mph down there but if I went on the excellent cycle lane I'd break my bikes.

www.google.co.uk

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.co.uk www.google.co.uk

I also don't trust people to stop on the side 'roads', in 2016 a Nurse drove straight out of Harplands throwing me up in the air and me landing heavily on Hilton Road.
This was witnessed by 6x Paramedics and 2x Coppers having a break outside the WMAS (when it was still there).
They wouldn't let me up for 25 minutes because they thought I was seriously injured (they don't see accidents happen) but I had 3 broken ribs and a dislocated right arm.
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Did you do the Mel Gibson thing in Lethal Weapon and pop it back in?
 
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